Hi Anicca,Anicca wrote:Can you provide a brief description of what you practice?mr. gordo wrote:As you all know I'm a Vajrayana practitioner
metta
Practices from Sakya and Nyingma lineages.
Hi Anicca,Anicca wrote:Can you provide a brief description of what you practice?mr. gordo wrote:As you all know I'm a Vajrayana practitioner
metta
Hi Aloka,Aloka wrote:Why expect other people on an internet forum to speculate about your future, mr gordo ? Just keep practising and be mindful and aware in the here and now !mr. gordo wrote:Hey all,
I was wondering where a Vajrayana practitioner will be reborn from a Theravadan perspective. From a Theravadan perspective, I'm guessing a bad rebirth for a Vajrayana practitioner would be due to wrong view and practice? Would I be headed towards the Animal realm? Ghost realm? Human realm? As you all know I'm a Vajrayana practitioner, but I've also had some training in the Mahasi Style of vipassana. I am genuniely curious though as to the realm I would be heading to from a Theravadan point of view. I have a ridiculously thick skin, so please be honest and blunt, it's OK.
Thank you for these sutta references cooran! Very helpful!cooran wrote:"So it is with any man who refrains from taking life, from stealing, & from indulging in illicit sex; refrains from lying, from speaking divisive speech, from harsh speech, & from idle chatter; is not greedy, bears no thoughts of ill-will, & holds to right view. Even though a great crowd of people, gathering & congregating, would pray, praise, & circumambulate with their hands palm-to-palm over the heart — [saying,] 'May this man, at the break-up of the body, after death, reappear in a destitution, a bad destination, the lower realms, hell!' — still, at the break-up of the body, after death, he would reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
316-319
Ashamed of what's not shameful, not ashamed of what is, beings adopting wrong views go to a bad destination. Seeing danger where there is none, & no danger where there is, beings adopting wrong views go to a bad destination. Imagining error where there is none, and seeing no error where there is, beings adopting wrong views go to a bad destination. But knowing error as error, and non-error as non-, beings adopting right views go to a good destination.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#dhp-316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
Rebirth is not a problem. The real question is can a Vajrayanika have genuine insight following the path they have chosen.clw_uk wrote:Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Theravada, Vajrayana, Mahayana, Dzogchen - - - - just labels.
It has to do with your intentional actions – not what label you apply to yourself.
tiltbillings wrote:Rebirth is not a problem. The real question is can a Vajrayanika have genuine insight following the path they have chosen.clw_uk wrote:Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Theravada, Vajrayana, Mahayana, Dzogchen - - - - just labels.
It has to do with your intentional actions – not what label you apply to yourself.
Then the question how much of the NEP is in the Vajrayana.clw_uk wrote:
I suppose that depends on how much the follow the Noble Eightfold Path...
tiltbillings wrote:Then the question how much of the NEP is in the Vajrayana.clw_uk wrote:
I suppose that depends on how much the follow the Noble Eightfold Path...
Ah, understood, thanks tilt.tiltbillings wrote:Rebirth is not a problem. The real question is can a Vajrayanika have genuine insight following the path they have chosen.clw_uk wrote:Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Theravada, Vajrayana, Mahayana, Dzogchen - - - - just labels.
It has to do with your intentional actions – not what label you apply to yourself.
Well I think that would be a loaded answer upon my part as I would say Vajrayana contains all of the NEFP. However, others would strongly disagree. I'm not looking to dissect Vajrayana in comparison to Theravada though (there have been other threads for that).clw_uk wrote:tiltbillings wrote:Then the question how much of the NEP is in the Vajrayana.clw_uk wrote:
I suppose that depends on how much the follow the Noble Eightfold Path...
I dont know much about the tradition, perhaps the person who started the thread could tell us?
I was really concerned about if rebirth would lead to a lower or higher realm in the eyes of a traditional Thervadan. From the responses given, it seems that even if Vajrayana does not fit the NEFP in accordance to Theravada standards, that it would still lead to higher rebirth? I guess I may have read in the past that having the wrong view would lead to the ghost realm or something to that effect. I forget the sutta for that though.
MN 57 Kukkuravatika Suttamr. gordo wrote:I guess I may have read in the past that having the wrong view would lead to the ghost realm or something to that effect. I forget the sutta for that though.
mettaNow there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb.
There is no official Theravadin point of view. There is a sutta where the Buddha states that whatever practice entails the NEFP leads to truth (or some such thing). From my stand point I have no doubt that the Vajrayana has a capacity for producing genuine insight, though may be lot of side trips along the way.mr. gordo wrote: I think tilt does raise a good point in terms of asking does Vajrayana lead to awakening. I didn't ask this question since I think I already know the Theravadan POV on this.
mr. gordo wrote:
I think tilt does raise a good point in terms of asking does Vajrayana lead to awakening.