How to overcome love of debate?

[Fede]

But people here are 3+...

Look upon it as 'telling it like it is' Anna... you know....

[octathlon]

From Ven. Thanissaro - Noble Conversation

The first passage included here, in addition to listing the ten ideal topics, also lists topics that monks and serious meditators should avoid, ranging from politics and food to theories about the creation of the world.

Ouch! I am guilty - guilty - guilty!

Oh dear, and I just recently started a thread about food...

[Annapurna]

Food as medicine constitutes an exception for me.

I think what was meant here was indulging in descriptions of sensuous sensations, desire and pleasure.

[PeterB]

Ah... but also ma'am. I was in the habit of posting too often whereas you do not post enough...

I sure as heck don't come here often enough to see all my very good friends, that's faw shaw....

Your good friends would love to see you more often...
The forum needs more input from experienced daughters of the Buddha, like yourself and Cooran, to balance out the male blether from the likes of yours truly.

[Wizard in the Forest]

I'm a lady, and I think Sanghamitta is too.

[PeterB]

Then why do you have a male name ? Surely you should be Witch In The Forest...
as to Sanghamitta, she is no lady.... I hope she doesnt read that...

[Wizard in the Forest]

Because I'm a Wizard, not a Witch. I remember once it being stated that in some cases, wizard and witch have taken on gender stereotypes that haven't existed before. Its very unusual for a female practitioner to consider herself a wizard; witch has been rhetorically programmed to be identified with 'woman' for so long, and through so much torment and heartbreak, that to identify oneself as a 'witch' gives a woman power to overcome trials. Therefore, though witch and wizard might have no linguistic basis in gender, the historical implications usually have as much impact on what a person chooses to call themselves as anything.

In addition, the ideas of witch and wizard have connotations about the kind of 'magick' one is likely to delve into. Witchcraft is very much associated with the here and now, finding its metaphor in nature magick, which is why the study of herbology, potions and whatnot is so strongly associated with the study. Wizardry, on the other hand, is associated with the larger forces of existence, ideas, the nature of existence itself, the 'ur' if you will. If you think about it this way, this also explains how both a witch and wizard might approach a similar problem: a witch might give someone a 'charm' to help them find a job, while a wizard might simply 'peer' into the maw of existence, 'see' how the universe is unfolding, and use such information to either guide the person to where they should be, or give them moral support, knowing that what they are going through now is going to pay off for them later.

However, if we are dealing with matters of magickal application, then the definitions of witch and wizard begin to take on a more pointed distinction. In its most basic understanding, a witch is someone who practices their craft using a wide variety of methods: spells, charms, potions, summons, incantations, to help augment the force of their will. A wizard is someone who practices their craft by force of will alone. In other words, a wizard is one who does not draw a pentagram on a floor with the magickal words written upon it in order to cast a protection spell: they simply 'will' protection into being. This distinction can be drawn further in that the more 'wizardly' one becomes, the less likely one will ever turn to using the tools to help themselves. Relying on the force of one's own will exclusively is what makes a wizard stronger, and most wizards will do their best to do their work with the least amount of 'support' as possible, since such hardship is the only way they know to make their will, and thus the force of their magick, stronger.

This arguement is sometimes seen in sci-fi and fantasy books as the distinction between a wizard and a high wizard or low magick and arcane or high magick, the distinction being that it is much more difficult to cause affect without using a focus or a complement (a boiling cauldron, roots, herbs, fairy dust, elder wands, etc etc) and therefore making the 'magick' all the more vulnerable to being discharged or broken.

Some of this is gender-bias, since the province of wizardry throughout the ages has taken on a more male-oriented role, but many such 'wizards' are closer to witches on further examination, since they often use props and other magickal implements (much like a witch) in order to perform their deeds.

As for the affectiveness of either method, neither is more or less effective than the other, since it is entirely dependent upon the practitioner. Just as a poorly trained martial artist can be beaten by a very skilled streetfighter, so too can a poorly developed wizard be overcome by a well-practiced witch, and I am not distinguishing by gender now, simply abilities. The 'power' comes from the person, and not by the methods they use.

[PeterB]

Well I suppose I did ask...I wish i hadnt now...

[Wizard in the Forest]

Silly.

Overcoming debate?!

[PeterB]

[Fede]

Well I suppose I did ask...I wish i hadnt now...

It's much like 'serious' actresses (Like Dame Joan Plowright, Vanessa Redgrave, Dame Helen Mirren) calling themselves 'Actors' because it gives them added gravitas and makes people take them seriously. Any old gal can be an 'actress'...it takes presence, and attitude to be an 'actoooor'.
And no, I don't want a debate about it, just adding a PoV to Wizard's long and excellent explanation.

Is your question now about 'overcoming debate'?
Or are we still on the original point of overcoming love of debate?

Because similarly, many people misquote the Bible and say "Money is the Root of all Evil" when in actual fact, it's "The LOVE of Money is the root of all evil"

So are you now wishing to avoid debate altogether, or to overcome this attachment to debate?
Say what you mean, and mean what you say....

(I think we need to clarify before we find ourselves having a play-mud-wrestle....! )

[PeterB]

A mud wrestle ?

[Wizard in the Forest]

So are you now wishing to avoid debate altogether, or to overcome this attachment to debate?
Say what you mean, and mean what you say....

(I think we need to clarify before we find ourselves having a play-mud-wrestle....! )

Apologies, Overcoming the idea of debate as an attachment. I want to overcome this attachment.

[villkorkarma]

if you are at the level of debate you must continue to debat if your concentration gets stronger with time that i think it will you will come out of the joy of debatt and the low state you reach sometimes your tops and downs will get smaller becourse your lifeimpulses will take finish eventually.

[Fede]

A mud wrestle ?

Oh dear, there goes his blood pressure.....