Hi
As I understand vipassana, it's a recognition of the three characteristics within the compounded phenomena. Now this is based on observation of the arising and vanishing of the five aggregates. And this allows to obtain right view.
But, I don't see any condition between this and the fact of understanding paticcasamuppada, all the more as the classical explanation runs on 3 lives, and that this cannot be observed, unless you get the divine eye.
Therefore I would like to know if you have any idea about this?
Thanx
Sacha
Vipassana and the 12 links
Vipassana and the 12 links
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Sorry I meant * connexion, not condition.
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
For the three lives answer I do not know
But for the in the moment answer, I can refer you to this http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... uppada.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But for the in the moment answer, I can refer you to this http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... uppada.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
As Craig says its not about the three lives hypothesis directly. Although Vipassana certainly does not deny the three lives view. Rather it is saying that what is germaine to past present and future can be found right here, with proper instruction and the right context.
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Svakkato Bhagavata Dhammo (well expounded is the Exalted One’s Dhamma)
Sanditthiko (to be seen here and now)
Akaliko (not delayed in time)
Ehipassiko ( (inviting one to) come and see)
Opanayiko (leading inwards)
Paccatam Veditabbo Vinnuhiti (to be seen by each wise man for himself)
Sanditthiko (to be seen here and now)
Akaliko (not delayed in time)
Ehipassiko ( (inviting one to) come and see)
Opanayiko (leading inwards)
Paccatam Veditabbo Vinnuhiti (to be seen by each wise man for himself)
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Thank you for your answers already!
Actually I was wondering how the instructions on satipatthana (which are sufficient to bring to right view, I assume) fit with the exposition of paticcasamuppada, even if this paticcasamuppada is interpreted as showing what's happening in this very life, or even this very instant.
Thank U
Sacha
Actually I was wondering how the instructions on satipatthana (which are sufficient to bring to right view, I assume) fit with the exposition of paticcasamuppada, even if this paticcasamuppada is interpreted as showing what's happening in this very life, or even this very instant.
Thank U
Sacha
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:00 pm
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
I'm currently reading the Nibbana Sermons, having read Nanvira's 'Notes on Dhamma' in relation to paticcasmuppada, and will read the Buddhadasa article above, and will thus also be very interested in replies to Sacha's question above.Sacha G wrote:Thank you for your answers already!
Actually I was wondering how the instructions on satipatthana (which are sufficient to bring to right view, I assume) fit with the exposition of paticcasamuppada, even if this paticcasamuppada is interpreted as showing what's happening in this very life, or even this very instant.
Thank U
Sacha
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Greetings Sacha,
(Note: this post was made whilst this topic was still in the Classical Theravada section)
What might complicate that potentially are knowing the links that cross consecutive lifetimes, to which end I'd recommend you find one of those elaborate circular diagrams that shows the past and present causes and effects, as understood in the Mahavihara tradition, like this slightly ungainly one...
Metta,
Retro.
(Note: this post was made whilst this topic was still in the Classical Theravada section)
It is often said that the 'three lives' are comparable, because this life's past life, was the past life's present life, and so on. By that argument, if you directly know the links as they pertain to one "life", you'll know them all.Sacha G wrote:Actually I was wondering how the instructions on satipatthana (which are sufficient to bring to right view, I assume) fit with the exposition of paticcasamuppada, even if this paticcasamuppada is interpreted as showing what's happening in this very life, or even this very instant.
What might complicate that potentially are knowing the links that cross consecutive lifetimes, to which end I'd recommend you find one of those elaborate circular diagrams that shows the past and present causes and effects, as understood in the Mahavihara tradition, like this slightly ungainly one...
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Hi Sacha.
One question at a time. please!
Arising and passing away, or fading, might be a better way of understanding than using the word "vanishing". There is a subtle difference.
Although I know smart people who would argue otherwise, I've dropped the 3 lives idea. It just seems overly complex and not of immediate use.
One last point--the "3 characteristics" have been elevated to a high status in Vipassana. This might not correspond directly to some of the basic suttas. But that is enough for now.
One question at a time. please!
Arising and passing away, or fading, might be a better way of understanding than using the word "vanishing". There is a subtle difference.
Although I know smart people who would argue otherwise, I've dropped the 3 lives idea. It just seems overly complex and not of immediate use.
One last point--the "3 characteristics" have been elevated to a high status in Vipassana. This might not correspond directly to some of the basic suttas. But that is enough for now.
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Greetings,
Just a quick reminder that in the Classical Mahavihara section, the Tipitaka and associated commentaries are considered definitive for the purposes of discussion.
Thanks for your understanding.
Metta,
Retro.
Just a quick reminder that in the Classical Mahavihara section, the Tipitaka and associated commentaries are considered definitive for the purposes of discussion.
Thanks for your understanding.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Oh, sorry.
Sacha might get a more satisfying response in another forum where her question(s) can be discussed freely.
Sacha might get a more satisfying response in another forum where her question(s) can be discussed freely.
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Hi, a small detail which has nothing to do, but Sacha's a male name
Apart from that, if someone knows how to redirect this post to a more appropriate freedom (i.e allowing the interpretation within one lifetime of paticcasamuppada), it'd be nice!
Apart from that, if someone knows how to redirect this post to a more appropriate freedom (i.e allowing the interpretation within one lifetime of paticcasamuppada), it'd be nice!
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
I meant * thread, not "freedom"
Sacha
Sacha
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://dhamma.webnode.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
Greetings,
Topic moved to General Theravada in accord with OP's request.
Metta,
Retro.
Topic moved to General Theravada in accord with OP's request.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
-
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:00 pm
Re: Vipassana and the 12 links
I have a two pronged question which I'd be grateful for replies on in relation to this.
First, in respect of the 'three lives' approach, is this in accordance with the dhamma being akaliko?
As an extension of the first part of the question above, how (if at all) does the below sutta have any bearing?
If the answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, then how, in the present, do we see the past and future through vipassana? Is that possible, or am I missing something here?
Thanks.
First, in respect of the 'three lives' approach, is this in accordance with the dhamma being akaliko?
As an extension of the first part of the question above, how (if at all) does the below sutta have any bearing?
I'm quite uncertain and confused.Very well then, Kotthita my friend, I will give you an analogy; for there
are cases where it is through the use of an analogy that intelligent
people can understand the meaning of what is being said. It is as if
two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In
the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes
consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes
name-&-form. SN 12.67
If the answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, then how, in the present, do we see the past and future through vipassana? Is that possible, or am I missing something here?
Thanks.