Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by PeterB »

He did Hanzze, and that is laudable, But it was several decades before substantial numbers of westerners were able to approach Buddha Dhamma on its own terms rather than theirs.
And many still cant.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by tiltbillings »

Hanzze wrote:I see it is more a case of justice :-)
Its like the Christian use to call: "You are a bad christ, you do not go to church and do not worship." It is not that easy to leave the western habit, but Hesse give it a try.
What?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by PeterB »

Buddha Dhamma really started to come west when substantial numbers of people started to say
" Buddham Saranam Gachami
Dhamam Saranam Gachami
SANGHAM Saranam Gachami "
And actually mean it.
With their foreheads touching the ground to symbolise the fact that they were accepting what is actually taught,by actual flesh and blood teachers who can metaphorically kick arse when necessary... rather than their own subjective ideas.
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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

»Bei mir selbst will ich lernen, will ich Schüler sein, will ich mich kennenlernen.«
Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

"With in my self I will learn, I will be a disciple, will get to know my self."
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Annapurna
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Annapurna »

I don't know if any of the previous posts can do Hermann Hesse's work justice, including mine.

Each experience and reaction is necessarily a highly individual one.

What I do know is, -after several years of forum discussions and Dhamma studies with many of you-, that I could probably tell who has written which post, without a nick, -just by the amount of criticism, rejection or acceptance the poster expresses.

Some posters here usually notice and highlight the valuable and useful in other things,- as their predominant default mode.
Some posters here usually notice and highlight the worthless and flawed in other things,- as their predominant default mode.

Fewer folks react neutral, or can present both sides.

Which is better? Which is worse? Which is fairer?

I don't know.

How would the Buddha react?

:buddha1:
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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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tiltbillings
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by tiltbillings »

Annapurna wrote:I don't know if any of the previous posts can do Hermann Hesse's work justice, including mine.

Each experience and reaction is necessarily a highly individual one.

What I do know is, -after several years of forum discussions and Dhamma studies with many of you-, that I could probably tell who has written which post, without a nick, -just by the amount of criticism, rejection or acceptance the poster expresses.

Some posters here usually notice and highlight the valuable and useful in other things,- as their predominant default mode.
Some posters here usually notice and highlight the worthless and flawed in other things,- as their predominant default mode.

Fewer folks react neutral, or can present both sides.

Which is better? Which is worse? Which is fairer?

I don't know.

How would the Buddha react?

:buddha1:
Hesse is not scripture. It is a matter of personal, individual taste as far as his writing style is concerned. As far as presenting the Buddha in his book, not so good, but not a reason not to enjoy the book if you like his style.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by PeterB »

Annapurna wrote:I don't know if any of the previous posts can do Hermann Hesse's work justice, including mine.

Each experience and reaction is necessarily a highly individual one.

What I do know is, -after several years of forum discussions and Dhamma studies with many of you-, that I could probably tell who has written which post, without a nick, -just by the amount of criticism, rejection or acceptance the poster expresses.

Some posters here usually notice and highlight the valuable and useful in other things,- as their predominant default mode.
Some posters here usually notice and highlight the worthless and flawed in other things,- as their predominant default mode.

Fewer folks react neutral, or can present both sides.

Which is better? Which is worse? Which is fairer?

I don't know.

How would the Buddha react?

:buddha1:
And some posters frequently reduce any debate to meta discussion concerning the the style of others and to speculation about the mindset of people they have never met and almost certainly never will.
Last edited by PeterB on Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by tiltbillings »

Annapurna wrote:I don't know if any of the previous posts can do Hermann Hesse's work justice, including mine.

Each experience and reaction is necessarily a highly individual one.

What I do know is, -after several years of forum discussions and Dhamma studies with many of you-, that I could probably tell who has written which post, without a nick, -just by the amount of criticism, rejection or acceptance the poster expresses.

Some posters here usually notice and highlight the valuable and useful in other things,- as their predominant default mode.
Some posters here usually notice and highlight the worthless and flawed in other things,- as their predominant default mode.

Fewer folks react neutral, or can present both sides.

Which is better? Which is worse? Which is fairer?

I don't know.

How would the Buddha react?

:buddha1:
On second reading, this is a meta-discussion about the participants. The rule is no meta-discussion, especially about the individuals themselves.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
PeterB
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by PeterB »

Hanzze wrote:
PeterB wrote:Buddha Dhamma really started to come west when substantial numbers of people started to say
" Buddham Saranam Gachami
Dhamam Saranam Gachami
SANGHAM Saranam Gachami "
And actually mean it.
With their foreheads touching the ground to symbolise the fact that they were accepting what is actually taught,by actual flesh and blood teachers who can metaphorically kick arse when necessary... rather than their own subjective ideas.
Dear PeterB,

why did you write sangham big. Is it to point out that harmony is very important?
General for that case you had described, but that is only my opinion (like always), that is nothing more than an extension of the big funeral celebration that is going on. Watch the babies, they actually need a good care.
I have NO idea what you mean after your first sentence Hannze.
But the reason I wrote Sangham in capitals is because it seems to me that we in the west can kind of take refuge in the Buddha in an intellectual sense, and we can certainly learn all about Dhamma as a series of concepts , but many westerners avoid consciously or not ,involvement with real, messy, hands on involvement with actual real members of the Sangha, and find it more cosy and unchallenging to sit in front of our PC's.
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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

»Nichts steht mir zu, über eines anderen Leben zu urteilen!« Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

"Nothing entitlement me to judge about one others life!"
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Annapurna
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Annapurna »

tiltbillings wrote:Hesse is not scripture. It is a matter of personal, individual taste as far as his writing style is concerned. As far as presenting the Buddha in his book, not so good, but not a reason not to enjoy the book if you like his style.
I agree. :anjali:
Last edited by Annapurna on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

»Wenn jemand sucht, dann geschieht es leicht, dass sein Auge nur noch das Ding sieht, dass er sucht, dass er nicht zu finden, nichts in sich einzulassen vermag, weil er nur immer an das Gesuchte denkt, weil er ein Ziel hat, weil er vom Ziel besessen ist.
Suchen heisst: ein Ziel haben.
Finden aber heisst: frei sein, offen stehen, kein Ziel haben.
Du, Ehrwürdiger, bist vielleicht in der Tat ein Sucher, denn deinem Ziel nachstrebend, siehst du manches nicht, was nah vor deinem Auge steht.«
Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

"If somebody is searching, it happens often that his eye does only see the object that he is searching for, that he is not able to find, not able to admit into it, because he is constantly thinking on what he is searching for, because he has an aim, because he is obsessed of the aim.
Searching means to have an aim.
But to find it means: to be free, stay open minded, having no aim
You, Venerable, you are in deed a searcher, aspirating after you aim, many you do not see, even next to your eye."

_/\_
with loving kindness
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

" ... the river is everywhere at the same time, at the source and at the mouth, at the waterfall, at the ferry, at the current, in the ocean and in the mountains, everywhere, and that the present only exists for it, not the shadow of the past, nor the shadow of the future?"

Siddhartha compares his own life to a river:

"... I reviewed my life and it was also a river, and Siddhartha the boy, Siddhartha the mature man and Siddhartha the old man were only separated by shadows, not through reality. Siddhartha's previous lives were also not in the past, and his death and his return to Brahma are not in the future. Nothing was, nothing will be, everything has reality and presence."
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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