Plants ~ Borderline Beings?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Stuart
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Post by Stuart »

chownah wrote:Could it be possible that the Buddha prohibits monks from harming plant because having monks going around damaging plants (some of which were planted and tended even though it might not be obvious to a monk) would be a nuisance to a person or community and in general set a bad example for everyone in general and have nothing to do with plants having a potential to do anything?
chownah
chownah :anjali:

Yes maybe so, and also, maybe because plants are the homes and refuge for insects and birds and all sorts of animals. There is certainly mayhem in the rodent community in the aftermath of harvesting. Interdependence between the animal world and the plant world appears to be very important.

Stuart
xxx
Mukunda
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Post by Mukunda »

Stuart wrote:I think that the idea that a "being" :quote: becomes enlightened may be a misunderstanding.
And to think that there is not a being who becomes enlightened is an equal misunderstanding.
meindzai
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Post by meindzai »

Stuart wrote:
chownah wrote:Could it be possible that the Buddha prohibits monks from harming plant because having monks going around damaging plants (some of which were planted and tended even though it might not be obvious to a monk) would be a nuisance to a person or community and in general set a bad example for everyone in general and have nothing to do with plants having a potential to do anything?
chownah
chownah :anjali:

Yes maybe so, and also, maybe because plants are the homes and refuge for insects and birds and all sorts of animals. There is certainly mayhem in the rodent community in the aftermath of harvesting. Interdependence between the animal world and the plant world appears to be very important.

Stuart
xxx
Agree and agree.
Stuart
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Re: Place of plants in the order of beings

Post by Stuart »

Mukunda wrote:
Stuart wrote:I think that the idea that a "being" :quote: becomes enlightened may be a misunderstanding.
And to think that there is not a being who becomes enlightened is an equal misunderstanding.
:anjali:
Indeed - the problem, as always, is becoming ...

Stuart
xxx
Parth
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Plant Life

Post by Parth »

Have a doubt, where does the plant life figure in the rebirth cycle. Plant life does not seem to have been covered in any of the 32 realms of existence.

Regards
Parth
Lombardi4
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Re: Plant Life

Post by Lombardi4 »

Plants are not sentient beings, because they do not have consciousness.
A "sentient being" (pani, satta) is a living being endowed with mind or consciousness; for practical purposes, this means human beings, animals, and insects. Plants are not considered to be sentient beings; though they exhibit some degree of sensitivity, they lack full-fledged consciousness, the defining attribute of a sentient being.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... toend.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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cooran
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Re: Plant Life

Post by cooran »

Hello parth,

The Abhidhamma explores this matter further. Read about Jivita-indriya (life faculty) here:
http://www.phathue.com/buddhism/dharma- ... ipa-day-5/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Plant Life

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

parth wrote:Have a doubt, where does the plant life figure in the rebirth cycle. Plant life does not seem to have been covered in any of the 32 realms of existence.

Regards
Parth
Hi, Parth.

Have done extensive research into this question and came to the conclusion that early Buddhists did not truly appreciate the various capacities of plants which caused them to arrive at the conclusion that plants are not sentient.

Buddha allowed for protection of certain plants, but it appears only for the reason that such plants are homes or residences for sentient life forms such as creatures of the forest, including devas and various gods. Buddha also required that followers avoid damaging crops of farmers, not for the sake of protecting the plant, but because the farmers' yields would be affected.

Today we understand that various plant species have abilities not previously understood:

Self preservation: Plants emit toxins to keep bugs and animals from devouring them.

Enter Into Symbiotic Relationships: Many plants have complex relationships with various insects, which collect nectar from the plant and in exchange carry pollen from male to female plants in the process of pollination.

My favorite in this regard is relationship between the African fire ant and the Acacia tree. The fire ant protects the trees from larger herbivores in exchange for a sticky sweet substance which the ant collects for its nutritional needs.

Movement Some plants move in protection of their limbs, leaves and branches. Some plants, which rely upon animal proteins and fats for sustenance move in response to actuation of triggers in order to trap small animals and insects. Some plants have evolved slippery surfaces and inescapable bowls with pits filled with digestive enzymes to make the nutrients from the insects that fell therein to be digested.

Plants have long been known to be photo-philes and and photo-taxic, meaning that they can reorient themselves to maximize photon impingement due to radiation from our local star, The Sun, to ensure efficient photosynthetic processes.

Communications: Plants, like ourselves and other sentient animal organisms, have the ability to communicate. Plants do this both chemically and chemo-electrically

Mutational Adaptive Specialization Plants, like animals, have been modified genetically to adapt to varying conditions due to environmental pressures such a predation, competition, and changing environmental conditions such as heat, pressure, wind, water availability and etc..

Because I have spent so much time in the past discussing and debating this topic I have given up trying to persuade others that plants should be treated with as much respect as any animal life-form. While plants "may not" meet the criteria of sapience and sentience by human definitions, they do add enormously to our quality of life, and in reality we could not exist without them as we have evolved on this planet. Certainly there are life-forms which have adapted to sulfurous gases near volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean, here in New Hampshire we rely on plants for much of the food that we eat, the materials from which our homes are built, the clothing that we wear, and even for the oxygen in the air that we breathe.

Therefore, I hereby submit my vote to allow plants to join the sentient community of life-forms on this planet. :group:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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cooran
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Re: Plant Life

Post by cooran »

Hello Ron,

Slightly exaggerated example. I go through automatic doors when entering my work place They are triggered by my footsteps on the mat in front of them. I have never felt that this means they are 'beings' or that I could be reborn as an automatic door. Certainly plants are alive, like bacteria, but according to the Teachings we cannot be re-born as one. Similarly we cannot be re-born as a cabbage or a tomato plant.

Best to stick with what the Buddha taught - a Sammasambuddha.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Hanzze
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Re: Plant Life

Post by Hanzze »

Dear Ron-The-Elder,

thanks for sharing your explanations and do not give up! The issue is most important for our self (the human family).
There are indeed factors which makes one to be called an elder.

_/\_

Dear friends,

so a plant comes to "existence" out of which reason?
I guess it does not exist out of it self.

Well it can not argue, scream or hurt like other beings but just as I had observed by my self I could not call them mindless. I would not bet on it that there is a second circle of life which is special for plants, but maybe a higher realm :-)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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retrofuturist
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Re: Plant Life

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Hanzze,
Hanzze wrote:so a plant comes to "existence" out of which reason?
It doesn't... not the way Buddha defined existence, anyway.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Hanzze
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Re: Plant Life

Post by Hanzze »

Dear retrofuturist,

are there suttas which call plants "different" forms of live? Do they not arise, exist, and dying? Are they not caught in the circle of life?
As the tree seams to be one of the most peaceful beings, nutritious so many beings, giving them a place to live, air to breath, holding the soil together that it does not get lost. Even he is such a kind of generous being, he has to struggle and fight from the birth till death. His fight may be soundless, slowly, difficult to observe, not easy to see.

In German palaces where trees are planted to grow in protection are called: "Baumschule" what could be translated as "School for trees". It may has nothing to do with it, it just came to my mind.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
alan
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Re: Plant Life

Post by alan »

Plants are irrelevant. Be nice to them anyway--it's good for you.
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Hanzze
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Re: Plant Life

Post by Hanzze »

Dear alan,

irrelevant for what?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
alan
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Re: Plant Life

Post by alan »

Not a proper question.
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