Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

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max
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by max »

Please do not think i am being rude by joining in with this discussion. Land is used to make feed for animals and people after all they both have a right to live, but there are more and more people coming into this world and people are living longer. A long time ago there was wide spread famine and disease that kept the world in a kind of status quo, now with better living standards in some parts of the world people live longer and consume more and at times more than they need and at times alot of that goes to waist. Wouldn't it make more sense for there to be less people in this world before we consume ourselves to death. If people had less children which would result in a reduced need on the planet. If you can't aford to feed yourself or the one child you have why have child 1,2,3.
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cooran
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by cooran »

Hello max,

I suspect in many countries without aged pensions children are the only support and protection in old age. So, to make certain some survive to care for their parents, they have quite a few.

Religion is another reason people will not use birth control. As is the expense and lack of availability of suitable forms of contraception, in populations with low or no incomes.

And plain old lust - having sex when the mood takes you, without a thought for the possible consequence.

List of countries by population growth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... rowth_rate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Human population control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_population_control" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

Hey there, Max!
I definitely understand what you are talking about and that is ultimately the crux of the whole issue. we undeniably have a population problem, and my point is that unwise land use is the cause. We have a growing unsustainable population, and despite Malthus's predictions agricultural practices have less struggles to meet demand for population needs, but the dirty secret is that the uneven distribution of goods in the market has made this unprofitable for landowners. So rather than feeding people, they cater to the wealthy. Thus we have people eating themselves to death and people starving to death at the same time. The cost to the environment is that the majority of vegetables are being consumed by a small amount of people, and the same with the meat, however to try and meet growing demand for vegetables farmers engage in some of the most environmentally devastating practices. With meat being less of a land occupying task, they make factory farms. These factory farms are efficient and meet demands quickly, and take no space even if it costs to feed them. As for the question of these animals, there are more of them than there are people. To say we want less of them means what? Kill them? Thenceforth dies compassion. Declare them unkillable? Then we have a planet overpopulated by cows, people starve to death, so do cows due to starvation, and thenceforth dies compassion.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir
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Hanzze
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
PeterB
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by PeterB »

According to the Buddha cows do not manifest as human, nor do humans manifest as cows.
That is Hindu Dharma. Involving an atta. Not Buddha Dhamma which takes as a central teaching, Anatta..
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Hanzze
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
PeterB
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by PeterB »

" You" are a stream of khandas...a cow does not become a human. A cow does not even become another cow. There is no pre-existing atta which takes different forms. Form arises dependantly due to conditions, including kamma.
Nothing passes from one entity to another entity.
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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Phra Chuntawongso »

An issue which I have not seen addresed in this thread yet is a deliberate destruction of fruit and veg for monatery purposes.
This is something that I was unaware of until working on an apple orchard in the UK one year.
We had been picking fruit for a number of weeks,when the farmer came and told us that the following day we would begin to do INTERVENTION picking.Having never heard of this before I asked what it was.
Hold onto your hats folks coz what follows is TRUE.
The farmer had picked his yearly allowed quota of apples(EU quota)and could not pick any more apples for sending to market,so he would now be paid to pick his remaining crop-first class fruit only and an EU inspector would come to inspect the fruit quality and tonnage and then the fruit would be dumped on the ground and heavy farm machinary would be driven over it to insure it did not end up in the market place.
Farmers are also paid not to plant all of their land,it is called set aside land.
This ensures that there is not an over abundance of fruit and veg,therefore keeping prices up.
I am told this also happens with coffee growers,but having never picked coffee beans cannot say for sure.
P.S. I quit my job that day.It just didn't seem right to get paid for something that I felt was immoral.
With metta
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PeterB
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by PeterB »

Its truly shocking Bhante...of course its not the individuals farmers fault ,,its the result of the EU's Common Agricultural Policy..and is one reason why many in the UK would like a withdraw from the E.U.
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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Phra Chuntawongso »

PeterB wrote:Its truly shocking Bhante...of course its not the individuals farmers fault ,,its the result of the EU's Common Agricultural Policy..and is one reason why many in the UK would like a withdraw from the E.U.
I agree.It is not the individual farmers fault,but it appears that this is not only occuring in the EU.
As I said,I believe that coffee growers do the same thing.Who knows how much food is destroyed worldwide just so that profits can be kept up.
I asked the farmer in question about giving the apples away to the poor and was told that this was illegal.Go figure,illegal to give unwanted,first class fruit to the poor.Apparently if we give it away,then these horrible poor people would not buy it.
Some one obviously didnt tell these pen pushing bueracrats that poor people don't buy it any way because its too expensive.
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
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Hanzze
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
max
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by max »

Thank you for understanding what i was trying to express. I have it all in my head but when it comes to actually typing it all out, it comes out differently :thanks:

Regarding cows, they have been breed over the years to be a overdeveloped figure of how they used to be in order to feed people, as in dogs the pedigree standards that we see today is not the standard that existed many years ago. Human lust and greed regardless of the consequence.
Another consequence of the way we live is that more and more people have pets and those pets need to be fed, and it is far more profitable to cater for animals than a poor country.

I am trying to be a better person by reducing my impact on this world but as i see the products that i have eg PC, Phone, toiletries all of those have a consequence on this planet and to the poorer countries.

Africa has a world of wealth on it's surface yet countries poison the land with mining for products that will go into our phones, toiletries and PCs . I think to myself how many have perished inside those make shift mines that are only big enough for a child to fit inside, how much do they need to collect in order to get a pittance of money, there are no health and safety regulations, no code of conduct just exploitation.

I see that this world will devour itself regardless as everything is connected to consequence in some form or the other, in the mean time we can help ease the suffering of others who do not have a voice
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Hanzze
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by Hanzze »

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
max
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by max »

It is not pity that i am advocating neither is it getting some one to be addicted to the way of life the west dictates. I am saying that all of our belongings no matter how green we are, have been created at a cost to some one else. Sitting and contemplating ones fortune or misfortune does not put food into the mouths of the hungry or change how governments prostitute there country and there people. There comes a time to speak.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Environmental & Health Consequences of Carnivorous Diets

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
max wrote:There comes a time to speak.
Sure, but in the interests of keeping this topic open, here's a quick reminder for everyone that this is the "Wellness, Diet & Fitness" forum. Therefore, matters such as ethics, economics and politics are off-topic.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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