Dear Friends,
All starts with a lie, if we stop lying, we would be there.
What about expressions which are growing into a lie. For example: You tell somebody something, which is the true, but it is retold in a wrong way. What would be the karmic effect on the one who told it first.
Does his action ends as long as it is retold?
What grows to a lie?
What grows to a lie?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Re: What grows to a lie?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: What grows to a lie?
There was not a thing in the OP to indicate that you were talking about doctrinal issues. It looks like you were simply posing a general question. It has not a thing to do about being "worthy" of being in this or that section. By the nature of the OP, this thread seemed better suited for the lounge. This thread can be moved back to the GT section, but it really needs to have an obviousl;y direct tie to Theravada doctrine rather than being a general discussion about lying. You might want keep that in mind next with the thread you initiate.Hanzze wrote:Dear Moderators,
So it is not a worthy for a general Theravada discussion? The precept of abstain from lying maintains almost everything, there would be no harming and no suffering without a lie.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: What grows to a lie?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: What grows to a lie?
You don't know? What does your experience tell you?Hanzze wrote: Could fear lead to a lie. Or is the lie the cause of fear.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: What grows to a lie?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Re: What grows to a lie?
You are not responsible for the actions of others.Hanzze wrote:Dear Friends,
All starts with a lie, if we stop lying, we would be there.
What about expressions which are growing into a lie. For example: You tell somebody something, which is the true, but it is retold in a wrong way. What would be the karmic effect on the one who told it first.
Does his action ends as long as it is retold?
Whether they intentionally or unintentionally distort something you say, that is entirely in their responsibility, and not in yours.
Metta
Re: What grows to a lie?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Re: What grows to a lie?
Dear Hanzze, this is a bit speculative, but I will try.
If you tell a lie, it is your intention and wrong speech, not anybody else's.
You inherit the kamma for your intentions and actions.
If someone else passes on your lie, not knowing it is a lie, and has good intentions, it is still your lie.
It doesn't become the other one's lie, because he does not intentionally try to deceive.
But if he knows it is a lie, and still passes it on, to help you deceive, he is an accomplice and shares into the kamma of lying.
In short: You have to know that you are lying, and you have to intend to.
Is this helpful?
With metta
If you tell a lie, it is your intention and wrong speech, not anybody else's.
You inherit the kamma for your intentions and actions.
If someone else passes on your lie, not knowing it is a lie, and has good intentions, it is still your lie.
It doesn't become the other one's lie, because he does not intentionally try to deceive.
But if he knows it is a lie, and still passes it on, to help you deceive, he is an accomplice and shares into the kamma of lying.
In short: You have to know that you are lying, and you have to intend to.
Is this helpful?
With metta
Last edited by Annapurna on Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What grows to a lie?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Re: What grows to a lie?
I already explained that.
Please read it again and let it sink in.
Chew the words.
Please read it again and let it sink in.
Chew the words.
Re: What grows to a lie?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Re: What grows to a lie?
Dear Hanzze, in my understanding it would not be a lie, according to right speech, if you think some information is a truth, and pass it on in good faith and trust. A lie requires knowledge and the intention to deceive..Hanzze wrote:Dear Annapurna,
maybe I ask more direct. If you don't know yourself and tell it, is it a lie (wrong speech, flash speech).
But I am not a Dhamma teacher.
I am not sure what you mean with this.If you know that somebody would repeat it, without understanding himself. Would it have effects on you if you ignore it and tell him?
Re: What grows to a lie?
Spot on imo.Annapurna wrote:Dear Hanzze, in my understanding it would not be a lie, according to right speech, if you think some information is a truth, and pass it on in good faith and trust. A lie requires knowledge and the intention to deceive..Hanzze wrote:Dear Annapurna,
maybe I ask more direct. If you don't know yourself and tell it, is it a lie (wrong speech, flash speech).
But I am not a Dhamma teacher.
I am not sure what you mean with this.If you know that somebody would repeat it, without understanding himself. Would it have effects on you if you ignore it and tell him?
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retrofuturist
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- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: What grows to a lie?
Greetings,
Hanzze, there are many suttas on Right Speech, a handful of them are presented here - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... amma-vaca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - I am confident the suttas provide adequate guidance on the matter of Right Speech.
Metta,
Retro.
Ditto with all of Anna's responses to Hanzze in this topic thus far.PeterB wrote:Spot on imo.
Hanzze, there are many suttas on Right Speech, a handful of them are presented here - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... amma-vaca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - I am confident the suttas provide adequate guidance on the matter of Right Speech.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."