Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

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ground
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by ground »

Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse
And in fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction you are following Hesse's footsteps?
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.



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Annapurna
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Annapurna »

alan wrote:If anyone has "The making of Buddhist modernism" handy, there is an interesting passage referring to Hesse's interpretation on page 228-232. Worth a read.
No, I don't.

:|
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Annapurna »

TMingyur wrote:
Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse
And in fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction you are following Hesse's footsteps?
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.

Kind regards
I think he said that he finds "Siddharta" useful to understand Buddhism. He didn't even say in which way.

Plus, this quote doesn't seem to be from Siddharta.

When you say: in fantasising about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction,

is that really necessarily bad and "fostering distraction"?

When I reflect upon the Buddhas qualities and characteristics, do I foster distraction? No, it is an inspiration for me.

Who knows if that isn't what Hanzze is doing, when he reflects upon Siddharta and Buddha? ;)
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.
And Buddha grew up in a Hindu environment. Perhaps this motivated him? :smile:

I'm not trying to dismiss what you said, -just adding some of my thoughts.

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PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by PeterB »

There was no Hinduism at the time of the Buddha. Hinduism is a much later bringing together of various strands, some of them influenced by Buddhism but differing in asserting a reincarnating atta.
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

To study history means submitting to chaos and nevertheless retaining faith in order and meaning.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by ground »

Annapurna wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse
And in fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction you are following Hesse's footsteps?
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.

Kind regards
I think he said that he finds "Siddharta" useful to understand Buddhism. He didn't even say in which way.

Plus, this quote doesn't seem to be from Siddharta.

When you say: in fantasising about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction,

is that really necessarily bad and "fostering distraction"?

When I reflect upon the Buddhas qualities and characteristics, do I foster distraction? No, it is an inspiration for me.

Who knows if that isn't what Hanzze is doing, when he reflects upon Siddharta and Buddha? ;)
Invalid reply. Why do you neglect the context? Irrelevant whether Siddharta or not.

Hannze quoted Hesse.

The context is this:
Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse
This (the underlined) is what I call "fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics" and if Hannze does the same (which may be the reason why he quotes this) then he is fostering distraction ... (if he considers himself a buddhist) and he is "following Hesse's footsteps".

Please note: "if" means conditional statement. Therefore the question above.

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Annapurna »

:shock:

wow. ;)

Reminded me of a school teacher I once had...

... :smile:
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by alan »

I'll try to summarize that tomorrow. Meanwhile, Thanissaro's book "purity of heart" has a typically brilliant essay which is relevant to this discussion. Couldn't find it at ATI, but here is an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romanci ... a?page=0,0
Read this first. Everyone needs background information before making assumptions about Hesse, and what, if anything, his book can tell us now.
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by ground »

Annapurna wrote::shock:

wow. ;)

Reminded me of a school teacher I once had...

... :smile:
Well posting actually is inseparable from textual analysis if one's post refers to something someone else has written. And yes, textual analysis is a subject in school that actually is very helpful especially in the context of buddhism and its texts.


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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Ben »

Probably time to re-engage with the topic?
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

All men are prepared to accomplish the incredible if their ideals are threatened.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Kim OHara »

alan wrote:... an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romanci ... a?page=0,0
Thanks, Alan,
A good article. Joined a few dots for me!
:namaste:
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by Hanzze »

Some of us think holding on makes us strong; but sometimes it is letting go.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by christopher::: »

alan wrote: Thanissaro's book "purity of heart" has a typically brilliant essay which is relevant to this discussion. Couldn't find it at ATI, but here is an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romanci ... a?page=0,0
Read this first. Everyone needs background information before making assumptions about Hesse, and what, if anything, his book can tell us now.
Wow! Spot on. This deserves it's own discussion thread, perhaps? I think Bikkhu made excellent points, but it's also not so simple as he described. There exists for example numerous versions of Buddhism in Asia that present the Dhamma and Buddha very differently from how they are viewed by the "meditating" traditions of Theravada, Zen and Tibetans. It's not such a simple distinction like Asian Buddhism is "pure" and will take you all the way while Western Buddhism is romantic or impure and shuts doors, imo.

Human cultures are very complicated...!
Last edited by christopher::: on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Post by tiltbillings »

christopher::: wrote:
alan wrote: Thanissaro's book "purity of heart" has a typically brilliant essay which is relevant to this discussion. Couldn't find it at ATI, but here is an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romanci ... a?page=0,0
Read this first. Everyone needs background information before making assumptions about Hesse, and what, if anything, his book can tell us now.
Wow! Spot on. This deserves it's own discussion thread, perhaps?
Well, don't talk about it. Do it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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