YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates - Dhamma Wheel

The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Sacha G » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:14 pm

Hi there!
I got a (apparently) very simple question: The 5 aggregates and the 5 Clinging-Aggregates: What's the difference?
:coffee:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

User avatar
IanAnd
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:19 am
Location: the deserts of Arizona

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby IanAnd » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:55 am

They are the same.

The adjective "clinging" is only illustrative of one's unwholesome demeanor toward them. Learn not to cling to them by removing ignorance of them.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

Paññāsikhara
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am
Contact:

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:48 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:55 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

pt1
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:30 am

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby pt1 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:53 am


User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Dmytro » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:42 pm



User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Hanzze » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:39 pm

Ven. Buddhadasa's explaining by pictures may be form interest:



Image

There is a story here which one should know before studying the picture. A man who is fleeing from five thieves reaches a river where he discovers a floating corpse; he jumpes onto if and crosses the river. Here instead of thieves, five birds have been drawn in the right hand corner and these also represent the five heaps (khandha) or aggregates: material quality (rupa), feeling (vedana), memory (sanna), volition (sankhara) and consciousness (vinnanna). All of these are characterized by grasping (upadana) and are complete analysis of one’s self.

The rotting corpse, used to cross the river, is none other than one’s loathsome and disagreeable body. (One should not suppose that the body in Buddhist Teaching is to be despised, nor are the consequences of doing so (self-torture) ever found in Buddhist Teachings. However, the true nature of the body has to be seen with insight - as it really is and not as one wishes it might be since everyone knows, when they think about it, that it is naturally subject to old age, disease and death.) The corpse however, is still useful in reaching the further shore of Nibbana. The monks, and the laypeople holding lotus blossoms are those who have realized the truth and recognized the danger of the five heaps which constitute a “person” and are no longer attached to them.



Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Sylvester » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:20 am


User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:58 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Sacha G » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:47 pm

Hi Acinteyyo
Thank for the answer.
That the clinging aggregates are the aggregates when clinging has disappeared (such as in the case of the arhat) doesn't seem completely satisfying.
For 2 reasons:
1°) First the arhat still feels pain (at least physically). You cannot say that pain is not suffering. Therefore pain is a clinging aggregate ( though the arhat doesn't cling to anything anymore).
2°)The commentaries declare that form is necessarely a clinging aggregate. So the body of the arhat is a clinging aggregate (though the arhat doesn't cling to it).
:anjali:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Sacha G » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:49 pm

Reading my post again I see one sentence is not very clear.
I meant the aggregates of clinging do not become simply aggregate by the fact of the disappearance of clinging within the arhat.
:anjali:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:47 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Sacha G » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:34 pm

Thanks Acinteyyo for your clear answers.
I would only say that things are not as obvious as you seem to say.
For example, it's not obvious that physical pain is not suffering when clinging to it (or its opposite) has disappeared: why would some arhats commit suicide if it was not suffering?
What's more, though liberation means the end of the production of kamma, it doesn't mean the end of the result of kamma, so that would mean that Suffering is still possible after liberation.
Thanks anyway, I don't try to convince anyone, just trying to understand. :anjali:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby acinteyyo » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:16 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Vepacitta
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:58 pm
Location: Somewhere on the slopes of Mt. Meru

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Vepacitta » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:01 am

Upadana broken down into its constituent parts:

dana = giving

adding the "a" to make adana = taking

Up = towards self

updana - taking upon onself - taking towards oneself - holding to oneself - taking up

These are my class notes on the Culavedalla Sutta (No. 44 MN)

Clearer-ish? Breaking down the pali into its roots helps in understanding this stuff ... at least, I think so

Best,

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:02 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:24 pm


PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby PeterB » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:34 pm


User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:58 pm


User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: The 5 Aggregates and the 5 Clinging Aggregates

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:05 pm



Return to “Classical Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine