Diacritic marks

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Diacritic marks

Postby JackV » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:12 pm

Greetings to all.

I am currently trying to get the correct and necessary diacritic marks for the sentence sabbe satta dukkha muccantu (May all beings be free from suffering) It seems that most of the transliterations you read online don't have the necessary diacritic marks to accurately reproduce the original in an Indic script.
Does anyone here have the ability to help me with this?

Thank you

Jack
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:48 pm

"Sabbe sattā dukkhā muccantu" is the correct spelling.
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:15 pm

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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby JackV » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:38 am

Excellent!

Thanks very much! I really appreciate it.

Having a look at the The Sublime Attitudes link (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#sublime) I notice that the sentence/statement as I have posed it isn't actually there, there are variations but not the same sentence. Is there a reason for this? I mean as far as I know the sentence Sabbe sattā dukkhā muccantu makes sense. Does anyone know if this term/mantra is ever employed? It would be nice to ensure that it is in keeping with tradition.

Peace and blessings.

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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:59 am

Hi Jack,

I'm not a Pali expert, but there may be other metta chants that do include that particular phrase.

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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:33 am

There are many Pāli compositions that were made later, taking bits and pieces from here and there. It would be hard to trace the exact sources in the Pāli texts and Commentaries.

The Burmese Chanting Book contains this formula as part of loving-kindness (metta) meditation:

Sabbe sattā, sabbe pāṇā, sabbe bhūtā, sabbe puggalā, sabbe atta-
bhāva-pariyāpannā, sabbā itthiyo, sabbe purisā, sabbe ariyā, sabbe
anariyā, sabbe devā, sabbe manussā, sabbe vinipātikā averā hontu
abyāpajjā hontu, anīghā hontu, sukhī attānaṃ pariharantu, dukkhā
muccantu, yathā-laddha-sampattito mā vigacchantu, kammassakā.
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby hamsa » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:59 pm

I did a little research on the CSCD and found that the closest version to the Pāli chant linked above is perhaps the Mettākathā of the Paṭisambhidamagga (Paṭis ii.22, PTS ii.131).
In the Idriyavāra, the chapter immediately following the Mettākathā, there is a kindred formula that, related to each of the five faculties (saddhā, vīriya, sati, samādhi and paññā), constitutes an instrument to realize mettācetovimutti: “sabbe sattā averino hontu, sukhino hontu”.
The same formula is applied to the five strengths in the Bālavara (PTS ii.133), to the seven wings to awakening in the Bojjhaṅgavāra (PTS ii.134), and to the eight elements of the eightfold path (PTS ii.135).

This formula, “sabbe sattā sukhitā hontu, dukkhā muccantu, laddhasukhasampattito mā vigacchantu” occurs in Vinayavinicchaya-ṭikā (3134) and in the Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha (ix.24).
In the Abhidhammāvatāra there are these stanzas:
Sukhitā hontu vāmā vā, dukkhā mucchantu vā na vā;
samiddhā vā daliddā vā, kā mamettha vicāraṇā

(Nāmarūpapariccheda 1392);
Sampattīhi samijjhantu,
dukkhā muccantu pāṇino;
aho sattā sukhappattā,
hontu sattā yathā tathā

(Nāmarūpapariccheda 1405);
Sādhu sattā sukhī hontu, dukkhā muccantu pāṇino;
aho sattā sukhappattā, hontu yadicchakāti ca

(Paramatthavinicchaya 915).

Dear Ven. Bhikkhu Pesala, thank you very much for posting the link to the Burmese Chanting Book, it reminded me of lovely memories…
:anjali:
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby notyourguru » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:25 pm

Regarding the question does Sabbe sattā dukkhā muchantu make sense; I'm no Pali expert either, but to me, Sabbe sattā means "May all beings," and Dukkha Muchantu means "may all being be free from suffering"... so, if you say them both together, it sounds like "may all beings, may all beings be free from suffering" when I translate it. In my personal translation from the research I've done, I would not attempt to put them together. Although, I don't know for sure at this point.

Jack, if you would like to see what it actually looks like in real Pali script, you can find it at this site. http://www.mac.in.th/wp-content/uploads ... a-pali.pdf

Kind regards,
Not your guru
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:05 pm

notyourguru wrote:if you would like to see what it actually looks like in real Pali script, you can find it at this site. http://www.mac.in.th/wp-content/uploads ... a-pali.pdf


?

I think you mean Thai script, since Pali does not have a script of its own.

see: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2369
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby JackV » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:56 pm

notyourguru wrote:Regarding the question does Sabbe sattā dukkhā muchantu make sense; I'm no Pali expert either, but to me, Sabbe sattā means "May all beings," and Dukkha Muchantu means "may all being be free from suffering"... so, if you say them both together, it sounds like "may all beings, may all beings be free from suffering" when I translate it. In my personal translation from the research I've done, I would not attempt to put them together. Although, I don't know for sure at this point.

Jack, if you would like to see what it actually looks like in real Pali script, you can find it at this site. http://www.mac.in.th/wp-content/uploads ... a-pali.pdf

Kind regards,
Not your guru



Hi people.

A super long delay in reply to this due to a variety of reasons, so apologies.

I was wondering if anyone can comment on the above. I have seen that Sabbe Satta means "may all beings" but I thought that dukkhā muccantu meant "free from suffering" Looking into it now I can see what Not Your Guru is saying.
I am, as always, delving into a subject which my lack of foundational knowledge makes difficult. If any kind person could shed some light on this then it would be much appreciated.
I have always been astounded by the level of knowledge, and by the kindness of people on this site.

Jack
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Re: Diacritic marks

Postby Kare » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:14 pm

notyourguru wrote:Regarding the question does Sabbe sattā dukkhā muchantu make sense; I'm no Pali expert either, but to me, Sabbe sattā means "May all beings," and Dukkha Muchantu means "may all being be free from suffering"... so, if you say them both together, it sounds like "may all beings, may all beings be free from suffering" when I translate it. In my personal translation from the research I've done, I would not attempt to put them together. Although, I don't know for sure at this point.


Here is the meaning word for word.

Sabbe - all
sattā - beings
dukkhā - from suffering
muchantu - may (they) be free

In English the words have to be shuffled about a little to make syntactical sense: May all beings be free from suffering.


Jack, if you would like to see what it actually looks like in real Pali script, you can find it at this site. http://www.mac.in.th/wp-content/uploads ... a-pali.pdf

Kind regards,
Not your guru


The transcription in those pages has several mistakes.
Mettāya,
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