Debts

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Annapurna
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Re: Debts

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:19 am

:anjali:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Alex123
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Re: Debts

Postby Alex123 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:21 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Annapurna
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Re: Debts

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:39 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

ashtanga
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Re: Debts

Postby ashtanga » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:51 pm

...sorry I started this thread but it does seem to have become popular...funny that. If its was as definitive an answer as some seem to think on here why so much discussion. Someone mentioned that it might not be the right time to ordain if debts cannot be paid off and to wait for another incarnation...am in a Buddhist forum here or on a hill in Glastonbury surrounded by smoke...WHAT?

I am honestly shocked at the some of the contents in this thread... It might as well be the other way round and you can't ordain UNLESS you have tonnes of money...ridiculous to assume that if its demontrable that a debt cannot be paid off then writing ot off is an option. Now, for those who say 'where did it go'... ask yourself this...WHERE DID IT COME FROM'...?

Anwyay, I'm not going to contribute anymore to this thread as its just winding me up .... rather meditate.

Have fun!

:clap:

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andre9999
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Re: Debts

Postby andre9999 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:31 pm


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octathlon
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Re: Debts

Postby octathlon » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:37 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Debts

Postby Alex123 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:18 am

To ordain just to escape debt is wrong. But one doesn't have to ordain to escape unsecured debt. One can write-it-off by bankruptcy.

But to ordain in order to live holy life to the perfection, that is really good. To hold person away from such, is very wrong, IMHO.

Modern life almost requires that one accumulates debt, and it is almost impossible to be without debt in the modern western world. In the economic downturn, it is too easy to have debt above what can be paid in reasonable time. Death can come at any moment and IMHO the holy life is far more important than giving some fat cats bigger electronic numbers.


Being in debt is not itself a disqualifier. Just how much debt was Angulimala in? He killed 999 people! The monetary, and most importantly other kind of debt, was really big. He ordained and become an Arahant. It would be terrible if he didn't ordain, (in order to pay off debt and make up to the victim's families), and remain a worldling...
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

shjohnk
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Re: Debts

Postby shjohnk » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:51 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Debts

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:55 pm

Sila should be abandoned, if it is a hindrance to developing samadhi. Samadhi should be abandoned if it becomes a hindrance to developing panna. None of these practices, however wholesome in themselves, should not become ends in themselves, blocking further progress.

Please see the 'Relay of chariots' sutta.

With metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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kirk5a
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Re: Debts

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:11 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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kirk5a
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Re: Debts

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:16 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:26 pm

We can agree and applaud all we like. However when push comes to shove its Ashtangas ( in this case ) preceptor that will decide, and they traditionally take a conservative view. They may even (horrors ) not regard the views put forward on this forum ! :o

If someone in Ashtangas present position gets ordained in a mainstream Theravadin Sangha I will download and eat this page.

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kirk5a
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Re: Debts

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:40 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:52 pm

Debt is hardly ever cancelled by bankruptcy. Almost always an accomodation is reached wherewith debt is eventually discharged..That is the point of bankruptcy.

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kirk5a
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Re: Debts

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:01 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:42 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Debts

Postby Alex123 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:16 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

PeterB
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Re: Debts

Postby PeterB » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:30 pm


farmer
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Re: Debts

Postby farmer » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:33 pm


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andre9999
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Re: Debts

Postby andre9999 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:38 pm

This thread really has run its course. Alex, you've made your point.


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