Extreme is the New Normal

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Kim OHara
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Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:41 am


Individual
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:51 pm

It can result in milder weather in some places and times too, though. I do believe in anthropogenic global-warming, but the above seems like left-wing fear-mongering and guilt-tripping.

What's the point of blame?
The best things in life aren't things.


nathan
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby nathan » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:00 pm

I've lived in the north west pacific, on the British Columbia coast for over 25 years. I've spent most of the last 17 years in the northern reaches of Vancouver Island. Here inside the northern temperate rain forest it rains almost constantly; trees, rocks, buildings and everything else is almost constantly wet and dripping with water. In no small part this is because of the forest cover. The forest canopy contains moisture both within the soil and under the tree canopy and this moisture continually condenses into fog and further into low hanging cloud banks which again deposit rainwater onto the islands and coastline. These phenomena are also continually refreshed by the continual influx of more cloud cover and more precipitation carried from west to east on the jet stream from the expanses of the pacific ocean and kept fluid by the temperate nature of the vast body of open sea water. The marginally cooler air above land masses further condenses and lowers the moisture passing above and the water precipitates onto the land.

Australia is, relatively speaking a desert, and likely, although Australians would know best, human activities have done little to ameliorate this and likely have only contributed to the overall desertification of the land. It is very difficult to restore deserts to moisture bearing lands but it is relatively very easy to turn near deserts into full blown deserts with very little effort. So it goes.

As for the nature of global climate overall, the words that tend to stand out in any of my similar reading have been 'since record keeping began', typically no more than 50 to 100 years. Contrasted with the estimated four billion years that the earth various climates have been arising and passing, changing and shifting, recent events, as dramatic as these may appear, are relatively mild in contrast with some of the known and studied evidences of past extremes. Given that seasonal temperature shifts as slight as 4 degrees and precipitation changes as small as a few inches are sufficient to put an end to the productivity many important crops on much of the worlds arable lands this is no small concern for human beings but in the greater context of the planet's geological and climatological history such shifts are almost insignificant. If an understanding of all of this contributes little to a more realistic assessment of the significance of human life in the overall scheme of things on this planet then I'm not surprised, an extremely myopic and short term view of the overall context is completely typical of all organic lifeforms.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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kirk5a
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:00 pm

There's a great series called "How the Earth Was Made" ... (I think that's where I saw this) in one episode it showed that in the ancient past, the entire earth froze completely over and nearly lead to complete extinction of all life forms. But life was saved by volcanic activity.

Which says nothing against human caused climate change, I can totally see that being possible. Especially when flying across country. Just about every scrap of earth has been worked over. This has to have effects.

But anyway, it's pretty amazing to think about the vast changes the earth has gone through. Humans are just a blip. Someday Manhattan will welded to another continent and covered in a mile of ice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Earth
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:24 pm

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Last edited by Alex123 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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cooran
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby cooran » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:14 pm

Hello Kim, all,

2010 officially the hottest year ever
Last year ranked as the warmest year on record, together with 2005 and 1998.
The UN's World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) has confirmed 2010 was the warmest year on record, verifying a "significant" long-term trend of global warming.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 ... 117825.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:20 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:26 pm

To those who said, basically, the climate has changed before and it's all natural:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate ... period.htm

(Alex, I'll respond to you at more length when I have a bit more time)
:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:34 pm

Kim O'Hara,

The climate on earth has been changing for billions of years, and I am not all sure that it was due to humans driving too much for all those millions/billions of years.


- CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) levels were from 7,000 ppm to 1,000pm for ~500 million years.

Life flourished at some of those levels. The current 389.69 ppm level is TINY and all the rise between 315ppm to 389.69 within 50 years is absolutely nothing. A hiccup.

CO2 levels rose from 4,500ppm to 7,000ppm during Cambrian. Where humans driving SUV's ~500 million years ago?

Please note the thousands (4,500 ) vs hundreds of ppm. WHAT CAUSED THOSE LARGE LEVELS that dwarf the "man made" (highly improbably claim) levels?



Also regarding global temperature, NOT CORRELATED TO CO2:

Average temperature stayed ~22C for hundreds of millions of years, prior to modern humanity
Current average temperature : 0.6C ?

So the temperature stayed at 22C for hundreds of millions of years, and now it is at 0.6C, and we talk about global warming? Warming??? !!!


Warming???!!!


Image




Do you understand this? I don't care about 100+ years of data. I would like to see the graphs for 100s of millions of years in order to check the overal picture.
Of course if we only look at 1955-2010 the upward swing may look scary. But if we look at the big picture, it is nothing. A hiccup.
Last edited by Alex123 on Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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clw_uk
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:42 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

alan
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby alan » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:44 am

It is also possible that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:59 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

alan
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby alan » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:10 am

Consider, please, that we are talking about man-made climate change. Data from the past one hundred years are what we need to be looking at, and the overwhelming scientific consensus is that the globe is experiencing significant overall warming. To deny that is akin to proposing evolution should not be taught in schools because some Bible fanatics find the general idea disagreeable.
Citing numbers from 500 million years ago, when the earth was a completely different place, is irrelevant at best, and purposefully misleading at worse.

saltspring
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby saltspring » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:17 am

Alex

Did you look at the link Kim provided? I think it might be worth your time, your graphs and figures are irrelevant to what we are currently dealing with which is human induced climate change.

Cheers
Chris

alan
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby alan » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:19 am

I'm assuming you didn't do this research yourself, as it seems like pre-packaged talking points, even down to the dumb ass jokes about SUV's and carbon taxes. That alone tells me you are not serious.
Might want to turn off the right-wing radio nut you listen to all day long.

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:19 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

saltspring
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby saltspring » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:29 am

Alex

Take a look at the link Kim provided for you. Your numbers are as Alan said irrelevant to the issue of human induced climate change. Do you really think that people on this board and the scientific community are not aware that there have been huge swings in the earth's climate throughout history? Come on give us a little credit.

Chris

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:32 am

Last edited by Alex123 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

alan
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby alan » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:35 am

Jesus Friggin' Christ.
At one point the atmosphere contained no oxygen. Can we extrapolate a greater point from that fact? No, because the planet has undergone severe changes throughout it's history. We humans have been polluting for just a tiny fraction of that history. Therefore, and I hope this gets past your conceptual barriers--we need to look at the data from the past one hundred years or so, when industrial society became dominant.
Is this a difficult concept?


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