Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
nathan
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Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:25 am

I plan to seek out the going forth, training and ordination in Thailand. I plan to leave early in April. I want to become a bhikkhu and live like that from now on regardless of my progress on the path. I have been preparing for that transition consciously for about a decade especially since taking it on in a preliminary way once before. I find it entirely appealing and I would like to start out in Thailand if this works out well. I have put my worldly affairs in order and have the opportunity and the means to do this now. I have been learning the Thai language some and trying to find out the best places and people to see about receiving the going forth, training of various kinds and eventual ordination. Any insightful experience, suggestions or contacts from anyone here would be welcomed.

Not sure what forum is best for threads like this. Please move it to wherever it makes the most sense. There are some people here who I know have great perspectives to offer. I'm not ever going to feel too ready to go. So please feel free to present as much info and advice as is available elsewhere in an updated form here at Dhamma Wheel.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:34 am

a good question to answer would be are you the go it alone type (kinda like our own dhammanando) or the buddy buddy type (like the ajahn chah monks)
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

nathan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:53 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

Snowmelt
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Snowmelt » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:03 am

Perhaps you have already heard of Wat Pah Nanachat? It is a monastery established by Ajahn Chah for monks from countries other than Thailand. I have heard good things about it. The website appears to be down at the moment, but Wikipedia has this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Pah_Nanachat

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:23 am

Wat Pah Nanachats site is just for information I think, it has been a while since I last went on though?

Have you thought about doing the preliminary stuff in the country you are in? there are several places in the UK and Americas as well as the rest of the world which do this, and this may be easier in the short term to adapt and learn to the life.

Good Luck with your Path


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

nathan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:26 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

nathan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:30 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:39 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

nathan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:43 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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gavesako
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby gavesako » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:05 pm

I spoke with the (German) abbot of Wat Pah Nanachat a few days ago when he popped in for a visit. The scene there at the moment is not so easy for him as there are many junior monks and novices to take care of, and only a couple of reasonably senior experienced monks (12 Rains or so) to guide them. They are also unduly burdened by administrative issues like visa renewal etc. Now most of the monks are not at WPN but in Dtao Dum, a retreat place in the jungle on the Burmese border (for the hot season). 30 temporary novices from the local village will take over WPN for a few weeks soon, as a way of introducing them to the monastic life (this is an experiment only). You will have a chance to use the well-equipped library at WPN, but it will mostly be self-study with the exception of the Vinaya classes and some Sutta classes. Pali is something that those interested study by themselves. There will be some instruction in Thai language as well (mainly during the Vassa).

Then there is another associated monastery called Wat Mab Chan in Rayong, see www.watmarpjan.org , where about 8 Western monks live and one can also ordain there under a Thai teacher.

I am not so well informed about the other places outside the Ajahn Chah tradition, though there are some in the Dhammayut lineage which might be good. Some big Mahanikaya temples in Bangkok might also offer more opportunities for study (but if you ordain with the Dhammakai group, they won't later accept you at WPN, you would have to disrobe and re-ordain).
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
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Dhammanando
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:27 pm


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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:32 pm


nathan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:15 pm

Actually I am willing to disrobe/re-ordain within reason if it will further my overall education. Dhammayut or Mahanikaya is not an issue for me yet. It looks as if either one could be either good or bad depending on the people and the conditions. I have some minimum standards of my own clearly in mind but I will have to learn about the differences that actually exist in practice. A place may have good standards of some kinds but also be too overburdened as appears to be the case with many of the western forest monasteries worldwide. They are great guys but they provide a lot of service for the laity and I am sure there are a lot of requests for more training and ordination all the time. If I end up in the more globalized mix I would like to bring some other training and experience to that context. I am inspired by Ven. Dhammanando's accomplishments among others but I don't know just how things will unfold. One way or another. I will need more language assistance in the beginning but I am very independent, quiet (much quieter than maybe appears online!) and easy going. It looks like Chiang Mai and surrounding regions have the most to offer me overall so far if I can learn quickly enough to work with visa renewals etc. a bit more independently. I am collecting some good places and people to look up in the north but some kind of ongoing support with the visa thing is probably the pivotal issue regardless of how things go. Another reason to set things up from there, as far as I can see from here.

Thanks for the update on Wat Pah Nanachat Ven. Gavesako. I did kind of think we may as well have some threads like this here and anyone can use this one if it fits. One stop shopping and all that. I'll try to stay somehow wired to the bit...no, swee...no, equanimous end of it.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

phil
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby phil » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:28 pm

Nathan, I really like the sense of purpose that comes through in your posts. It's a joyous thing to see someone on the verge of going forth. Those of us who can't go forth for one reason or another can be inspired to buckle down a bit more by your example.

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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gavesako
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby gavesako » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:38 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

nathan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:31 pm

Does all of this Mahanikai/Dhammakai stuff ever make sense?

Hi Phil, thanks for the kind words. I've had to bide my time and prepare slowly while other conditions changed and made this possible again so I know what it is like to want do this but not be fully able to do it as well. Things have finally all come together well more recently. I have been committed to this course of action and beginning in Thailand for about 4 months now. This is the final pre-Thailand stage now. Plans and steps for final departure and early arrival. I've managed to keep it relaxed, not too nervous or overexcited but looking forward to all of it immensely. :smile:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:38 pm


PaulC
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby PaulC » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:46 pm

Hi Nathan

I'm kind of surprised that people haven't mentioned Wat Bowon, as a possibility.

I was there in January visiting Phra Kevin, and he seems very well situated.

Paul

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Dhammanando
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:09 am


PaulC
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Re: Ordination in Thailand Info & Advice

Postby PaulC » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Ah! So I spoke too soon!

"Well-situated" as a staging ground for other things, perhaps ...

Thankyou, Bhante.

(And trusting you're in somewhat better health ...)

Paul


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