Vinaya rules

[Future Bhikkhu]

I was wondering if all the rules for a Bhikkhu were created in the time of the Buddha or were some created alter on?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I was wondering if all the rules for a Bhikkhu were created in the time of the Buddha or were some created alter on?

Given the different number of rules that exist in different Buddhist ordination lineages, I suspect the latter is more likely. Bear in mind though that the Sangha never asked which 'minor rules' could be abandoned, so there are some that even prevailed at the time of the Buddha, which he would not necessarily decree for use in the 21st century.

Metta,
Retro.

[Goofaholix]

I was wondering if all the rules for a Bhikkhu were created in the time of the Buddha or were some created alter on?

Most (maybe all) of the rules in the Theravadin Vinaya contain an explanation on how the rule came to be, usually a monk did something unbecoming of a monk and he Buddha made a rule there and then. So it appears the Theravadin Vinaya is something that was established while the Buddha was alive.

See http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... guide.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a guide.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Goofaholix,

Most (maybe all) of the rules in the Theravadin Vinaya contain an explanation on how the rule came to be, usually a monk did something unbecoming of a monk and he Buddha made a rule there and then. So it appears the Theravadin Vinaya is something that was established while the Buddha was alive.

Bear in mind that the explanations themselves may have been "created later on" and retrofitted... much like the explanations behind how the Dhammapada verses came to be.

I'm not claiming that it is so... just providing a heads-up on something to be mindful of.

Metta,
Retro.

[Goofaholix]

Bear in mind that the explanations themselves may have been "created later on" and retrofitted... much like the explanations behind how the Dhammapada verses came to be.

I'm not claiming that it is so... just providing a heads-up on something to be mindful of.

So the age/authenticity of the vinaya is not like the nikayas? more like the commentaries? Thanks for the clarification.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Goof,

So the age/authenticity of the vinaya is not like the nikayas? more like the commentaries? Thanks for the clarification.

What I mean is that the Vinaya has commentary, much like the Sutta has commentary. The explanatory stories behind the Dhammapada verses are commentary, so the explanatory stories behind the Vinaya rules may or may not be commentary... I don't know. Maybe someone more au fait with the Vinaya could confirm either way.

Metta,
Retro.

[Euclid]

Because this thread seems as good a place as any to ask: is there anything in the vinaya specifically preventing the Sangha from adding new rules to the patimokkha?