Vinaya rules

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
User avatar
Future Bhikkhu
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:59 pm
Location: Melbourne,Australia

Vinaya rules

Postby Future Bhikkhu » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:06 am

I was wondering if all the rules for a Bhikkhu were created in the time of the Buddha or were some created alter on?
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 15112
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Vinaya rules

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:57 am

Greetings,

Future Bhikkhu wrote:I was wondering if all the rules for a Bhikkhu were created in the time of the Buddha or were some created alter on?

Given the different number of rules that exist in different Buddhist ordination lineages, I suspect the latter is more likely. Bear in mind though that the Sangha never asked which 'minor rules' could be abandoned, so there are some that even prevailed at the time of the Buddha, which he would not necessarily decree for use in the 21st century.

Metta,
Retro. :)
“Delighting in existence O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence. they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind … (It. p 43)”

Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2107
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Vinaya rules

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:32 am

Future Bhikkhu wrote:I was wondering if all the rules for a Bhikkhu were created in the time of the Buddha or were some created alter on?


Most (maybe all) of the rules in the Theravadin Vinaya contain an explanation on how the rule came to be, usually a monk did something unbecoming of a monk and he Buddha made a rule there and then. So it appears the Theravadin Vinaya is something that was established while the Buddha was alive.

See http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... guide.html for a guide.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 15112
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Vinaya rules

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:14 am

Greetings Goofaholix,

Goofaholix wrote:Most (maybe all) of the rules in the Theravadin Vinaya contain an explanation on how the rule came to be, usually a monk did something unbecoming of a monk and he Buddha made a rule there and then. So it appears the Theravadin Vinaya is something that was established while the Buddha was alive.

Bear in mind that the explanations themselves may have been "created later on" and retrofitted... much like the explanations behind how the Dhammapada verses came to be.

I'm not claiming that it is so... just providing a heads-up on something to be mindful of.

Metta,
Retro. :)
“Delighting in existence O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence. they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind … (It. p 43)”

Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2107
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Vinaya rules

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:17 am

retrofuturist wrote:Bear in mind that the explanations themselves may have been "created later on" and retrofitted... much like the explanations behind how the Dhammapada verses came to be.

I'm not claiming that it is so... just providing a heads-up on something to be mindful of.


So the age/authenticity of the vinaya is not like the nikayas? more like the commentaries? Thanks for the clarification.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 15112
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Vinaya rules

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:22 am

Greetings Goof,

Goofaholix wrote:So the age/authenticity of the vinaya is not like the nikayas? more like the commentaries? Thanks for the clarification.

What I mean is that the Vinaya has commentary, much like the Sutta has commentary. The explanatory stories behind the Dhammapada verses are commentary, so the explanatory stories behind the Vinaya rules may or may not be commentary... I don't know. Maybe someone more au fait with the Vinaya could confirm either way.

Metta,
Retro. :)
“Delighting in existence O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence. they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind … (It. p 43)”

Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

Euclid
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:33 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Vinaya rules

Postby Euclid » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:56 am

Because this thread seems as good a place as any to ask: is there anything in the vinaya specifically preventing the Sangha from adding new rules to the patimokkha?


Return to “Ordination and Monastic Life”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine