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Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel

Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

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Kim OHara
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:34 am


PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby PeterB » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 am

I would imagine that covers many peoples Kindergarten of Buddhist or faux Buddhist literature Kim. I would add the works of Jung and of course Osho/Rajneesh, to the pile.

Perhaps we should be grateful to those works that first caught our interest...
It would be sad if anyone was still stuck in Kindergarten...peering out throgh the windows like Alice In Wonderland stuck in the little house after the biscuit with " Eat Me " written on it.....and I am afraid that the evidence is that that there are a number of such Alices among western Buddhists.
Last edited by PeterB on Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby PeterB » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:52 am

Your mention of Krishnamurti reminds me that If one actually wants to stay in Kindergarten it is necessary to avoid meeting ones Kindergarten heroes. I went to the annual summer camp that Krishmamurti used to address each year. I had read a lot of his work and was fascinated by his story,,he was as is well kown groomed by the Theosophists to be Maitreya and Christ combined...and he couragously denounced all that and broke away from them and becamea teacher of a kind of Advaita...
On the platform he was very impressive, handsome and fluent. He emanated a Buddha like calm.
Off the platform it became obvious that he had learned that persona.It was a well honed act. In reality he was anxious, demanding, intolerant. He spoke in a rapid whining tone with no gaps, and showed no interest in the other person. He had a repertoire of nervous tics and curious movements of limbs and face..he was in short, a bit of a mess....

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:00 am


PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby PeterB » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:08 am

Wasnt he just...
After the dialogue was filmed K's people contacted CTR's people to suggest a follow up...Trungpa replied " No...the mans a fake".

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:10 am

:focus:
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Nibbida » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:28 am


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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Nibbida » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:45 am


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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby meindzai » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:09 pm


PeterB
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby PeterB » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Nor do Dharma- Lite students Meindzai....you make a number of good points and make them well.

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Hanzze
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:37 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby VeganLiz » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:52 pm

I enjoyed Siddhartha. I read it when I was about 18...

I don't know enough about Buddhism to know if it's really a good understanding of Buddhism- apparently it isn't....But I liked it.

Also, I liked Dharma Bums....not a lot to do with Buddhism there, but enjoyable nevertheless.
"My actions are my only true belongings." Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:30 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:34 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Jhana4
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:42 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:49 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Buckwheat » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:00 pm

The first time I read Siddhartha, I knew only the very basics of Buddhism and Hinduism. Since Siddhartha is a common Indian name (or at least I've heard of it) and all spiritual concepts in the book seemed like Hinduism, I did not associate it as a "Buddhist" book in the slightest, especially since he meets and rejects the Buddha in the course of the novel. I still fail to see how people confuse it as a biography of the Buddha. You would have to turn off your mind to get that impression.

No, for me, Siddhartha the novel is simply a novel that is inspiring - a translation of the "Book of the Heart" that transcends dharma, history, and all the sankara's we generally attach to any combination of ink and paper (or pixels now-a-days). It did however, give my abstract spiritual feelings some form that I could work with. I looked into Hinduism, but quickly found my true home in Buddhism.

There are levels of dhamma - the formal teachings of the Buddha, which are not at all part of Herman Hesse's novel - and the real heart of the wisdom-compassion, which Hesse does a fine job in bringing to life IMO.

Does anybody find it ironic that Siddhartha's one and only criticism of the Buddha's doctrine is that because enlightenment can not be taught the description is inadequate, yet Siddhartha goes on to have many informal teachers (including a river and a whore) and a semi-formal teacher in the ferryman that he lives with by the river? I don't believe this is an irony that Hesse left in by neglegence. It shows that we do need teachers, even when they are not formal. We all learn from experience and from people. A few rare individuals can do it without a formal teacher (Siddhartha, the Buddha, the ferryman), but the rest of us need formal methods to cut off our coarser defilements. Even then, we must realize that a good teaching only narrows the search, and genuine Truth lies outside the domain of a formal teaching.

And let us not forget that Siddhartha's training was not complete until he learned how to love. Only then could he see the people he ferried across the river, not as children, but as humans full of dignity and suffering. Though he was respectful and free of ill-will throughout the novel, it is only after losing his son that he develops compassion. That was his final humility, losing the pride of dignity and conceit, and he never would have gotten there without the ferryman (a good companion).

Anyway, that's my take. I'm not expecting to change any minds about the novel. And yes, I read it again just a couple months ago and I was just as moved as the first five times I read it. It is not a book about Buddhism. But it is a book about sila, samadhi, and panna.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm

:goodpost:
:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:27 pm

At least one person I know will disagree... but I think it probably contains a very accurate pen portrait of what the Buddha was actually about, stripped of subsequent deification and hyperbole.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Ben
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:38 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

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