Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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JimKai
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by JimKai »

Annapurna wrote:Hi, may I ask something too?

What is meant with this?
Have you got eczema?
Eczema seems in many cases a harmless and not contageous condition that doesn't require much medical attention...it can come and go.

Would it be impossible to ordain if you have a harmless condition that comes and goes?

That would make me feel sorry for the individual.
I've been doing research on this subject for quite a while now, because I have eczema (though not the most serious kind) and I've contemplated becoming a monk for a few years now.

In Buddhanet's e-book library there is a pdf file written by two senior thai monks, which contains the ordination procedure. On the bottom of page 35 there is an editor's note, which clearly states that eczema is not what is meant by the pali word 'kilaso'. In this brochure it is translated as ringworm (a translation which I've seen elsewhere as well), which is a contagious fungal infection. The link is: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/ordination.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I searched google for an accurate meaning for 'kilaso' and in 'A Dictionary of the Pali Language" by R.C. Childers it is translated as "A cutaneous complaint, dry leprosy." This would verify the editor's statement in the previous book, that indeed the word refers to a fungal infection (which leprosy is as well).

Here is the link to the translation http://books.google.fi/booksid=xl3MZjR6 ... &q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could someone verify this for me? Do you have any first-hand experiences? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

:namaste:
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Ytrog
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by Ytrog »

Could they, in those days, distinguis between eczema and a fungal infection? :thinking:
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.
mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments
If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.
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JimKai
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by JimKai »

Ytrog wrote:Could they, in those days, distinguis between eczema and a fungal infection? :thinking:
I don't think so, no. In this age, however, the distinction has to be made. Personally I would assume that they are referring to ringworm/other fungal infections instead of eczema, because, as said, eczema requires little medical attention and is obviosly not contagious. In those days I understand that it will have been much more debilitating, but it seems strange that it would be an obstacle to ordination. There was some other source that commented that if there are blots of red and dry skin, which are not spreading further and are not a serious threat to the applicant's health, the applicant can go forth.

Sorry for the off-topic.
Bankei
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by Bankei »

It is possible to ordain without parent's permission.

I ordained into the Mahanikaya in Thailand without having my parent's permission. Although they would have given it, I just used my Thai 'parents' for the ceremony.

There is also a 'loophole' whereby a candidate can ordain without the permission by threatening to harm himself.
See
Crosby, Kate
2005 "Only if you let go of that Tree: Ordination without Parental Consent according to Theravåda Vinaya." Buddhist Studies Review

Bankei
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Bankei
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Ytrog
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by Ytrog »

Isn't using those Thai "parents" a form of deceit or did the monks know? Is this customary in Thailand?
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.
mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments
If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.
Bankei
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by Bankei »

Ytrog wrote:Isn't using those Thai "parents" a form of deceit or did the monks know? Is this customary in Thailand?
Possibly. But it was known that they were not my parents - they were brother and sister to each other actually!

Bankei
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burachan
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Post by burachan »

If the postulant doesn't have the parent's permission the sangha can and will accept a dukkata. I know of one such case in Burma, I'm sure there are more elsewhere. The question about the eczema has more to do with taking advantage of the healthcare that Sangha members might get from doctors who would offer their services free to Bhikkhus. At one time there was an outbreak of some skin condition and it seems that people were taking ordination because they knew they'd get free care from a doctor who'd offered it to the sangha. So, it isn't specifically about eczema or ringworm or anything like that.
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