Why not ordain?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by tiltbillings »

Future Bhikkhu wrote:If I am to experience it then I should prepare myself first, no? I am just going to do three hour meditaion sessions and wake up really early to meditate, they wil not hurt me.

With metta

:anjali:
Good luck with that, but keep in mind that any experience that comes out of the meditation sessions is just more of which to let go. What is interesting, howevewr, is how to let go. It is not something that one can force or willfully do; it comes from insight, but one's insight is not something upon which one should cling. And so it goes.

And never be so sure about what will or will not hurt you.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu »

tiltbillings wrote: Good luck with that, but keep in mind that any experience that comes out of the meditation sessions is just more of which to let go. What is interesting, however, is how to let go. It is not something that one can force or willfully do; it comes from insight, but one's insight is not something upon which one should cling. And so it goes.

And never be so sure about what will or will not hurt you.
Thanks. :D I sure hope meditation will not hurt me. :? I will try to get a teacher to guide me. I know that becoming a monk is hard but I have realised the suffering that is present in everyday life. I cannot imagine not attempting to rid of this. If I could get people's support it would be great because at the moment it seems like everybody is warning me that it is horrible. The only person who has given a positive response is a Bhikkhu. :|

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by tiltbillings »

Future Bhikkhu wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Good luck with that, but keep in mind that any experience that comes out of the meditation sessions is just more of which to let go. What is interesting, however, is how to let go. It is not something that one can force or willfully do; it comes from insight, but one's insight is not something upon which one should cling. And so it goes.

And never be so sure about what will or will not hurt you.
Thanks. :D I sure hope meditation will not hurt me. :? I will try to get a teacher to guide me. I know that becoming a monk is hard but I have realised the suffering that is present in everyday life. I cannot imagine not attempting to rid of this. If I could get people's support it would be great because at the moment it seems like everybody is warning me that it is horrible. The only person who has given a positive response is a Bhikkhu. :|

With metta

:anjali:
Warning that what "is horrible?" There is a very simple point here, be open to what you experience, but don't take it for being more than what it is. Knowing what it is, however, will come with experience, and whatever it is, it will be something of which you will in time need to let go.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu »

tiltbillings wrote:
Future Bhikkhu wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Good luck with that, but keep in mind that any experience that comes out of the meditation sessions is just more of which to let go. What is interesting, however, is how to let go. It is not something that one can force or willfully do; it comes from insight, but one's insight is not something upon which one should cling. And so it goes.

And never be so sure about what will or will not hurt you.
Thanks. :D I sure hope meditation will not hurt me. :? I will try to get a teacher to guide me. I know that becoming a monk is hard but I have realised the suffering that is present in everyday life. I cannot imagine not attempting to rid of this. If I could get people's support it would be great because at the moment it seems like everybody is warning me that it is horrible. The only person who has given a positive response is a Bhikkhu. :|

With metta

:anjali:
Warning that what "is horrible?" There is a very simple point here, be open to what you experience, but don't take it for being more than what it is. Knowing what it is, however, will come with experience, and whatever it is, it will be something of which you will in time need to let go.
Many have said that the ordained life is not very nice. I realise that there are the hardships but have not heard of any positive things. I this just the way people are? I am open but things are beggining to close with all the comments. It is almost like people are saying that I shouldn't become ordained because they don't like the idea. I understand what you are saying about the meditation. I never said I would not. Anyway :offtopic:

Why don't you become ordained?

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by tiltbillings »

Future Bhikkhu wrote: Many have said that the ordained life is not very nice.
Ordained life will be what you make it, importantly, what you bring to it.
I realise that there are the hardships but have not heard of any positive things.
The reality is that you have not a clue what it will be until you do it. I would never say do not do it, but the better rounded person you are, the better the experience. Learn what you can about as much as you can.
Why don't you become ordained?
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... ise#p89100
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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BlackBird
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by BlackBird »

Future Bhikkhu wrote:Hi jack

Could name the five worst things that you experienced physically and the five worst things you experienced mentally. I know that the physical is born in the mind but you know what I mean. Example: It was cold (physical). No family (mental).

Thankyou,

With metta

:anjali:
You've answered your own question when you said that the physical is born in the mind. There's no real need to differentiate between the two, because the negative or positive feelings associated with the physical are in fact entirely mental in nature. So really there's only mental 'worst things'.

But to satisfy your curiosity:
1. Mosquito bites (of which I was extremely susceptible)
2. Monkeys (mostly frustrating and humorous, but can be quite dangerous if you act in any way aggressive)
3. Ants (If you leave any food out at all, or even if an insect dies in your kuti, they will swarm in. On several occasions the small biting ants decided to nest under my jandals (flip flops) which I left outside my kuti. When I went to put them on in the morning the ants swarmed over my feet and bit the living daylights out of me. The bites sting too, a bit like a wasp sting. There's a larger 'bull ant' which bites too, the bite hurts a bit more than the small ants, but bull ant's are more docile, and generally not a problem.)
4. Scorpions (Found one in my toilet once and spent a couple of hours trying to coax the deadly thing out.)
5. Other assorted dangerous wildlife (Including snakes, especially the young small ones, which you have to be very careful of - I almost stepped on a deadly baby once, fortunately the monk infront of me on the path pointed him out just in time. Centipedes are also pretty bad, but not generally deadly. You just have to be very careful where you put your feet. I once mistook a deadly tarantula for a leaf while sweeping the path one morning. I only saw another once during my stay, so they weren't that common.)

Some might reckon me a bit of a wuss. That's not really true, I dealt with most of it at the time with a smile and a reflection that it's just the way it goes. By the end of my time there, I had grown quite accustomed to all of it. It was only with the idea of being rid of all of that, that these things stood out again as distinctive and unpleasant parts of my day. But I've grown up in the deep south of New Zealand where the only insect of note is the common house spider which you might only see once every 5 or 6 months. We only have two dangerous mammals - Drunken men and badly trained dogs.

Truth be told, in the end life is stressful whether you're a monk or a layperson. When I was young I thought that one would give up a substantial portion of one's suffering just by leaving the householder life. For some this might prove true, not for me, not last time around anyway.
Last edited by BlackBird on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Euclid
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Euclid »

I don't see myself ordaining ('permanently' at least) for a good while, because being a monk seems like a bloody hard and miserable existence. I'm sure after a period of time I'd get used to it, but I really do love the household life. I'm caught deep in the snare, and that's just the way it is. At the moment I simply practice to make my life easier. Will I eventually ordain? Who knows, I'm certainly not going to take a definite position either way at this stage. But right now, I'm quite content living the household life, truth be told.
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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu »

Well thanks for your input Tilt. Just remember that just because you didn't like being a monk it doesn't mean that I won't. In the same way I won't think I will like being a monk until I do. I will, however, give it a go. :)

Thanks for advise

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha
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BlackBird
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by BlackBird »

Ordaining in the Western Sangha would actually be quite pleasant. It's not a hard life by any stretch (at least in Bodhinyanarama) and they have a strong ideal of community and supporting one another. That being said it does attract a few loopies (perhaps I'm one of them), mostly just visitors but sometimes postulants too.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
Euclid
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Euclid »

Mm, that's very true. I think if I were to ordain, Bodhinyanarama certainly would be ideal. I'm still not sure if I could enjoy myself deprived of sense pleasures though.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by tiltbillings »

Future Bhikkhu wrote:Well thanks for your input Tilt. Just remember that just because you didn't like being a monk it doesn't mean that I won't.
I did not say that I did not like being a monk, and I am not saying that you won't like being a monk. You won't know if you do or don't until you do it. And things in life are often never so simple or black and white in actual experience as simply liking and not liking.
In the same way I won't think I will like being a monk until I do. I will, however, give it a go.
As you should, assuming in the intervening years until you can that is still your desire.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu »

Euclid wrote:I don't see myself ordaining ('permanently' at least) for a good while, because being a monk seems like a bloody hard and miserable existence. I'm sure after a period of time I'd get used to it, but I really do love the household life. I'm caught deep in the snare, and that's just the way it is. At the moment I simply practice to make my life easier. Will I eventually ordain? Who knows, I'm certainly not going to take a definite position either way at this stage. But right now, I'm quite content living the household life, truth be told.
Thanks for your response. As long as your happy, that's the main goal. :)

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha
Euclid
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Euclid »

tiltbillings wrote:And things in life are often never so simple or black and white in actual experience as simply liking and not liking.
Very well said, especially with regards to the Buddhadhamma. I don't 'like' meditation in the same way I 'like' watching a movie; I'd still rather sit each night than watch a movie each night.
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BlackBird
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by BlackBird »

Euclid wrote:Mm, that's very true. I think if I were to ordain, Bodhinyanarama certainly would be ideal. I'm still not sure if I could enjoy myself deprived of sense pleasures though.
Cheese, chocolate and gummy bears at 6. Beautiful restaurant quality food each day for lunch, a hearty breakfast. Gorgeous views from the Kutis. Modern and clean facilities. Interesting conversations. A fantastic library and an outing in the van once or twice a month for a beach or forest walk. I look back fondly, very fondly :)
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
Euclid
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Euclid »

Hah, sounds fairly luxurious! On one hand I'm not sure if I'd actually like that, because I'm not sure if I'd be ordaining for the right reasons :lol:
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