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Qi\Prana & Siddhis. - Dhamma Wheel

Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby Individual » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:02 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Rui Sousa
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:44 pm

I believe that we can sense, and to a certain point control, flows of energy in our body. Also I believe this is not conductive to the end of kamma, and so the Buddha has not spent time explaining it.
With Metta

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:39 pm

this guy (chang) was ataoist and a western guy studied with him and wrote some books about it... i thought about getting them, as i used to do qigong. i never got and dragon ball powers though, but had one wierd experience, once.

aparently you can gain powers from the kasinas , i was told by one of my teachers about thai monks who can control fire and stuff, but everything i've heard about it requires mastery of the jhanas before you can get the powers associated with the kasina, so alas no special powers for me, i've still gotta use matches... but if you think about it is it self a kind of magic, well at least it would be to people 1000 years ago
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby Fede » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:09 pm

Having been a Feng Shui consultant and a Shiatsu therapist, and now teaching Qi Gong, I can personally attest to having experienced the feelings of energy flowing within, and emanating from, my body. Most sensitively, through my hands.
I had one particular experience which convinced me, more than any other, that there is a tangible force, or energy prevalent and manifest.
However, I am resisting the temptation to assign it any specific label or function, and do not expect anyone to automatically give credence to my contribution here.
People may be as sceptical as they wish; this is their right, and I respect that.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:49 pm

The closest thing I can find in Theravada is:

viriya: 'energy', lit. 'virility', 'manliness' or 'heroism' (from vīra, man, hero; Lat. vir; cf. virtus), is one of the 5 spiritual faculties and powers (s. bala), one of the 7 factors of enlightenment (s. bojjhanga) and identical with right effort of the 8-fold Path (s. magga). For further explanations, s. padhāna.
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/u_v/viriya.htm

Unlike in other traditions, this vital energy does not seem to be extensively explored in terms of it's more mundane functions and the focus is on its role as one of the:

bojjhanga: 'the 7 factors of enlightenment', are:

* mindfulness (sati-sambojjhanga; s. sati),
* investigation of the law (dhamma-vicaya-sambojjhanga),
* energy (viriya-sambojjhanga; s. viriya, padhāna),
* rapture (pīti-sambojjhanga, q.v.)
* tranquility (passaddhi-sambojjhanga, q.v.),
* concentration (samādhi-sambojjhanga, q.v.),
* equanimity (upekkhā).
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/b_f/bojjhanga.htm
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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retrofuturist
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:51 pm

Greetings Nathan,

I suppose body-consciousness could also be said to be of some possible relevance.

It's a bit of a stretch though.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Rui Sousa
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:54 pm

I read a sutta once that spoke of "energy that repairs the body" or something like that, I wanted to quote it a couple of time, but couldn't find it... :(

On occasions I can clearly sense what I would describe as an energy flow in my body, specially around the spine, after which I feel very vivid and refreshed for a few minutes.

But if someone would tell me that if trained hard I could set papers on fire, which is something I accept as a possibility, I would probably say: "Why would I want to do that?"
With Metta

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:02 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:07 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:23 am

i think Rui Sousa's question as to why we'd want to do such things is a good one. :stirthepot:

i dont know if you had to train to get that warm inner heat nathan but i've always been a human heater... some people are just warmer than others i guess..

but really most of this magic really isnt so cool when compaired to modern technology, i could train for decades and practice everyday to be able to set some paper on fire? or i could buy a lighter and spend decades lighting papers on fire...

switch this to sending thoughts to other people, and i could use a telephone , levitation: airplane, the list goes on, magic just becomes a rather outdated form of technology that requires too much time and energy compaired with what we have easily available in the modern word.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:18 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:38 am

my point was not to dismiss it (magic), which i think is the prevailing attitude to such things, but rather to show it as for the most part rather useless in modern society.

right now i've got a nice new toshiba laptop, i could use an abacus and snail mail, theyd get the same jobs done right? but wouldnt it be more logical to ditch old methods if those methods, while maybe providing similar results, are more time consuming and out dated?

now the only thing that may be of benifit is say the ability to heal, if that is in fact possible, but the ability to burn stuff with my hands or other trivial powers wouldnt be of much use, theyre certainly not gonna end suffering...
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:12 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Rui Sousa
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby Rui Sousa » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:57 am

With Metta

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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:11 am

Excellent post Rui Sousa and is part of why I do not practice healing arts of this kind on others. I maintain my own health well with these exercises and insights l but I do not attempt to develop unnatural or extraordinary abilities that do not arise more directly from the eightfold path. Clear awareness of anatta, anicca and dhukka is necessary and other kinds of awareness need to be informed by this awareness. This characteristic awareness is to be taken into the full investigation of the body and mind to engender a full disenchantment with all of it. All of it will need to be thoroughly known so there is also no point in overlooking anything, imagining things or presuming that something is not there to be known.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

Individual
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby Individual » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:14 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


nathan
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Re: Qi\Prana & Siddhis.

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:55 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}


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