Sleeping on the floor (the ninth precept)

[Mawkish1983]

Thank you GrahamR

Just to update, as I just missed an Uposatha day I decided to sleep on the floor last night. Bhikkhu Bodhi mentioned in his lectures once that he supposed 'night' in the indian tradition ran from 7pm to 5am, so I slept on the floor until 5am. The immediate effect is DEFINATELY a notable reduction in back pain but whether it's long lasting or not, time will tell. I'll keep you posted and try again next week.

With regards to all eight precepts, I'll try adding them gradually so I can make it sustainable practice. Which of the additional precepts do you all recommend I add next week?

[appicchato]

Which of the additional precepts do you all recommend I add next week?

Try to be mindful of all of them Mawk...and do what you're able to...

[mikenz66]

Ironically, I did a short retreat at my Wat last weekend and I think I got a sore back from sleeping on the overly soft bed that someone must have donated for the particular kuti I was staying in... I was pleased to be back to my regular hard bed at home...

Metta
Mike

[DNS]

I knew a Thai man once who disrobed after over 30 years as a monk. He got so used to sleeping on the floor, that he continued to do so as a layman. So I suppose it is something that we can easily adjust to and then eventually prefer it that way.

(A few years back he re-joined the Order again.)

[Individual]

Someone mentioned back pain. I get back pain A LOT. I've never attributed back pain to my sleeping arrangements because I had always assumed sleeping in a bed with a matress was the social 'norm' for good reason. That being said, in the past the pain has got so bad that I've slept on the floor and it does seem to help in the short term.

I've never observed the additional precepts (I stick to the big five) but that's not to say I won't in the future. Maybe sleeping on the floor once a month would help?

Incidentally, I'm a classically trained Pianist so my sitting posture isn't an issue. I have back pain all the time (even now) because I'm 6'7" (2m) tall and this world was not designed for us giants <laughs> sinks are at knee level etc.

Anyway, when is the next Uposatha Day? I'll try sleeping on the floor on Uposatha Days from now on and relay back if it helps . As someone with chronic back pain this could be interesting.

When it comes to back pain and joint paint, three main things are neglected:
1) The way you sleep... Sleeping on soft beds is bad.
2) Posture... Slouching is bad.
3) Diet... Obesity is very rough on the spine and the joints, such as the knees and ankles.

[DNS]

When it comes to back pain and joint paint, three main things are neglected:
1) The way you sleep... Sleeping on soft beds is bad.
2) Posture... Slouching is bad.
3) Diet... Obesity is very rough on the spine and the joints, such as the knees and ankles.

Probably right, but when you're 6'7" like Mawkish or my brother-in-law, there's not much you can do about those things.

Try finding a bed for someone over 6'4" it's almost impossible to find. Posture, similar problem and diet, well you need to eat a lot if you're that tall.

[Mawkish1983]

... and diet, well you need to eat a lot if you're that tall.

Well, to be honest I'm classed as obese (just), but it's something I'm working on through mindfulness. I suppose back pain caused by being overweight is the vipaka for my unskillful eating habbits in the past.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, is anyone else here married and do you spend a night a week on the floor? How does you wife/husband react?

[GrahamR]

Well, to be honest I'm classed as obese (just), but it's something I'm working on through mindfulness. I suppose back pain caused by being overweight is the vipaka for my unskillful eating habbits in the past.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, is anyone else here married and do you spend a night a week on the floor? How does you wife/husband react?

My wife works 3 nights a week so I sleep on the floor then. You could both sleep on the floor.
If you are overweight, then consider not eating after noon as your next firm precept. I lost weight very easily. I had normal breakfast and lunch, then nothing after 12. Went down for 90kg to 80kg in about 6 weeks!
Good luck

[Khalil Bodhi]

Mawkish,

I'm married and live in a tiny apartment in NYC (well, I just moved into a bigger tiny apartment in NYC so there;s a bit more space). My wife doesn't always like it but she knows how important the practice is to me so on Uposatha days I either sleep on the floor next to the bed (when my 19 month-old isn't occupying that real estate on his toddler mattress) or I sleep in the living room or in his little room that has yet to be used for sleeping. I think more tahn anything she is annoyed that on Uposatha days we can't watch movies or TV shows together but it's only once a week so she deals with it. Anyway, I hope I answered your question. May you be well.

Metta,

Mike

[Mawkish1983]

I'll keep you posted and try again next week.

No noticeable back pain yet today.

[Gwi]

In reaction to mindfulness of my life, I had recently decided to attempt to follow an extreme form of morality.

It failed, of course. I have not been able to give up my addictions to contentious speech, alcohol, pornography, laziness, or lack of meditation, and have even been neglecting my daily ritual of offerings to the Buddha, and I will suffer tremendously for this....

...But... I have been sleeping on the floor. And I've strangely noticed that it seems to be more comfortable, in a way.

When a person lays down on something soft, like a bed, the spine isn't in proper alignment. The body is like a pile of jello, with the spine being twisted and sinking through it, instead of a spine sitting on a pile of well-placed stones. So, when I sleep on the floor, I seem to sleep better, it feels more cozy in a way, and when I wake up, my posture seems to be better. I slouch less and sit up more straightly, which is good for avoiding back pain in the long-term (a study on the comparative degrees of back pain among monastics vs. the general population would be interesting). I also like it because, in the possibility that I might one day not have a bed, I am preparing myself for the possibility that I might have to sleep without having a bed because the floor is about as soft as the earth. The lion's posture (similar to the fetus position), too, seems to be the best posture to sleep in, when it comes to proper circulation and proper placement of the body, although I am not used to it, from having never slept in it before.

When monks and Buddhists on uposatha days observe the ninth precept, where and how do they sleep? Does anyone observe this precept of avoiding soft beds and what has been their experience?

I sleep under (when uposathå)

Sleep on the floor? No problem.
On the roof it's okay too (no violation).

[SarathW]

It is important to note that beggars are also sleeping on the floor and eat less food.
So what are you expected to contemplate while doing this?

[Alino]

Floor sleep (on tiny yoga mat) I find to be a good practice. Its very personal but I found that :

- I sleep less and better
- no back pains
- more tonus while wake up
- wherever you sleep - you sleep like at home

My wife sleeps on the flood too, and she found it amazing.

At the beginning it can be unusual, but once you get it - you naturally préfère to sleep on the floor...

[bpallister]

I would sleep on the floor, but only if Gwi was on the floor next to me.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I have slept on the floor for years, and find it much more comfortable than a bed with a sprung mattress. In the Mahāsi Centre, we had beds, but only hardwood planks and a woven straw mattress.

I use three Zabutons, which also serve as meditation mats when needed.