Prayer request forum.

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Individual
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Prayer request forum.

Post by Individual »

Could we have a prayer sub-forum?
The best things in life aren't things.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Ceisiwr »

I didnt think Theravadins pray?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Individual
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Individual »

clw_uk wrote:I didnt think Theravadins pray?
They do, but generally without ignorant presuppositions.

Prayer in the sense of "expressing goodwill" towards another (ex: thinking I hope Dhammanando gets well", "I hope Retrofuturist gets well," etc.) is definitely a Theravadin practice.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Ceisiwr »

True, i suppose it depends on what you mean by prayer since its such a broad term

My understanding is that in Buddhism or at least Theravada its only used as a secondary tool as an aid to meditation so not like the theistic religions where prayer is communication with a being or an attempt to change situations for the better
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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tiltbillings
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by tiltbillings »

If we are going to have something like that, let us call it something else that does not have a theistic/Christian ring to it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Individual,

I don't see why someone couldn't already instigate such a request from within the Lounge or Personal Experience forum as they have done previously?

Generally speaking, we're reluctant to create new forums that will be virtually empty and/or lead to Dhamma Wheel becoming a labyrinthine maze of sub-forums etc. We like to see how such a restructure can facilitate discussion in a way that wasn't possible before, rather than just disperse it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Dhammanando
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Craig,
clw_uk wrote:I didnt think Theravadins pray?
In the Suttas (AN. ii. 164) "right praying" (sammā āyācamānā) for a monk means praying: "May I be like the venerables Sāriputta and Moggallāna!" For a nun it means: "May I be like the therīs Khemā and Uppalavaṇṇā!" For a layman it means: "May I be like the householders Citta and Hatthaka Āḷavaka!" For a laywoman it means, "May I be like Khujjuttarā and Veḷukaṇḍakī!"

The commentary to this sutta says that praying for anything other than the above is merely "wrong wishing" (micchā patthanā).

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Ben
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Ben »

Hi Ajahn
Dhammanando wrote:Hi Craig,
clw_uk wrote:I didnt think Theravadins pray?
In the Suttas (AN. ii. 164) "right praying" (sammā āyācamānā) for a monk means praying: "May I be like the venerables Sāriputta and Moggallāna!" For a nun it means: "May I be like the therīs Khemā and Uppalavaṇṇā!" For a layman it means: "May I be like the householders Citta and Hatthaka Āḷavaka!" For a laywoman it means, "May I be like Khujjuttarā and Veḷukaṇḍakī!"

The commentary to this sutta says that praying for anything other than the above is merely "wrong wishing" (micchā patthanā).

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

Does that mean as a lay-person, it is pointless to aspire to be more like Venerable Sariputta or Ven. Mahakassapa?
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Ben,
Ben wrote:Does that mean as a lay-person, it is pointless to aspire to be more like Venerable Sariputta or Ven. Mahakassapa?
I wouldn't read it as meaning that it would necessarily be pointless for a layperson to aspire to be more like Sāriputta, but rather as naming the most fitting exemplars for each of the four classes of follower.

This is how it is phrased in the sutta:
  • "Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu of faith, praying rightly, should pray thus: 'May I be like Sāriputta and Moggallāna!' These, bhikkhus, are the measure, these are the standard for my bhikkhu disciples, namely, Sāriputta and Moggallāna."
The same phrasing is repeated for the other three aspirations, replacing "bhikkhu" with "bhikkhuni" etc.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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phil
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by phil »

Dhammanando wrote:Hi Ben,
Ben wrote:Does that mean as a lay-person, it is pointless to aspire to be more like Venerable Sariputta or Ven. Mahakassapa?
I wouldn't read it as meaning that it would necessarily be pointless for a layperson to aspire to be more like Sāriputta, but rather as naming the most fitting exemplars for each of the four classes of follower.

This is how it is phrased in the sutta:
  • "Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu of faith, praying rightly, should pray thus: 'May I be like Sāriputta and Moggallāna!' These, bhikkhus, are the measure, these are the standard for my bhikkhu disciples, namely, Sāriputta and Moggallāna."
The same phrasing is repeated for the other three aspirations, replacing "bhikkhu" with "bhikkhuni" etc.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Hello Bhante

This is probably why I feel a bit confused when reciting the sublime abidings which includes "may all the devas protect you through the power of all the Buddhas/Dhamma/Sangha" towards the end. It feels like a prayer.

I'm not asking for an explanation, mind you. Just always find it a bit incongruous with the rest of the teachings. Tbe "may all beings be happy" etc doesn't feel incongruous because there is the understanding that beings can only be happy through their own deeds. But "may the devas protect you" doesn't quite fit for me. Perhaps the protection of the devas is conditional on our kamma?

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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mikenz66
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Phil,
phil wrote: This is probably why I feel a bit confused when reciting the sublime abidings which includes "may all the devas protect you through the power of all the Buddhas/Dhamma/Sangha" towards the end. It feels like a prayer.
Which chant is that in? I'm only familiar with this version:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#sublime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta
Mike
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Dhammanando
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Mike,
mikenz66 wrote:Which chant is that in? I'm only familiar with this version:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#sublime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's part of the anumodanā chant from the Mahājayamaṅgalagāthā:
  • bhavatu sabbamaṅgalaṃ
    rakkhantu sabbadevatā
    sabba-buddhānubhāvena
    sadā sotthī bhavantu te.


    bhavatu sabbamaṅgalaṃ
    rakkhantu sabbadevatā
    sabba-dhammānubhāvena
    sadā sotthī bhavantu te.

    bhavatu sabbamaṅgalaṃ
    rakkhantu sabbadevatā
    sabba-saṅghānubhāvena
    sadā sotthī bhavantu te.


    May all good fortune come your way,
    May all the devas protect you,
    By all the power of the Buddha
    May you always enjoy well-being.

    May all good fortune come your way,
    May all the devas protect you,
    By all the power of the Dhamma
    May you always enjoy well-being.

    May all good fortune come your way,
    May all the devas protect you,
    By all the power of the Saṅgha
    May you always enjoy well-being
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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phil
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Re: Prayer request forum.

Post by phil »

Hi Mike
mikenz66 wrote:Hi Phil,
phil wrote: This is probably why I feel a bit confused when reciting the sublime abidings which includes "may all the devas protect you through the power of all the Buddhas/Dhamma/Sangha" towards the end. It feels like a prayer.
Which chant is that in? I'm only familiar with this version:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#sublime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta
Mike
It's included in the version of sublime abides you linked us too, actually, towards the end.

Thanks also, Bhante, for the reference.

OK, I think I took this thread off topic. .

Metta,

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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