psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby andre9999 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:40 am

tiltbillings wrote:In other words, you really do not know what you are talking about.


+1. Too much theorizing and not enough firsthand or secondhand experience.
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Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:28 am

What Alex 123 if you gave an argument, and noone showed up ?

Your broadside against man made cilmate change is running out of steam....I think you are looking for a new fight.
As a psychiatrist I find certain posters very interesting indeed... :smile:

I certainly have no intention of feeding compulsive behaviour. If anyone has any real points to make about psychiatry they can always PM me.
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Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby pulga » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:16 pm

I don't think it is so much the drugs themselves, but the manner in which they're being doled out.

I recommend Harpers Magazine's review of DSM-IV: it's a great read:

"Not content with the merely weird, the DSM-IV also attempts to claim dominion over the mundane. Current among the many symptoms of the deranged mind are bad writing (315.2. and its associated symptom, poor handwriting); coffee drinking, including coffee nerves (305.90), bad coffee nerves (292.89), inability to sleep after drinking too much coffee (292.89), and something that probably has something to do with coffee, though the therapist can’t put his finger on it (292.9); shyness (299.80, also known as Asperger’s Disorder); sleepwalking (307.46); jet lag (307.45); snobbery (301. 7, a subset of Antisocial Personality Disorder); and insomnia (307.42); to say nothing of tobacco smoking, which includes both getting hooked (305.10) and going cold turkey (292.0). You were out of your mind the last time you had a nightmare (307.4 7). Clumsiness is now a mental illness (315.4). So is playing video games (Malingering, V65.2). So is doing just about anything “vigorously.” So, under certain circumstances, is falling asleep at night."

http://www.harpers.org/archive/1997/02/0008270
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Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:52 pm

I cannot speak with any knowledge of the USA scene pulga. I can tell you that currently in Europe tranqillisers and antidepressants are not " doled out". Not by any psychiatrists I know.

Of course it is understandable that in some parts of the world where psychiatry was used as a form of political repression by the state, as in the former USSR, that suspicions should linger.
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Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:19 pm

pulga wrote:I don't think it is so much the drugs themselves, but the manner in which they're being doled out.

I recommend Harpers Magazine's review of DSM-IV: it's a great read:

"Not content with the merely weird, the DSM-IV also attempts to claim dominion over the mundane. Current among the many symptoms of the deranged mind are bad writing (315.2. and its associated symptom, poor handwriting); coffee drinking, including coffee nerves (305.90), bad coffee nerves (292.89), inability to sleep after drinking too much coffee (292.89), and something that probably has something to do with coffee, though the therapist can’t put his finger on it (292.9); shyness (299.80, also known as Asperger’s Disorder); sleepwalking (307.46); jet lag (307.45); snobbery (301. 7, a subset of Antisocial Personality Disorder); and insomnia (307.42); to say nothing of tobacco smoking, which includes both getting hooked (305.10) and going cold turkey (292.0). You were out of your mind the last time you had a nightmare (307.4 7). Clumsiness is now a mental illness (315.4). So is playing video games (Malingering, V65.2). So is doing just about anything “vigorously.” So, under certain circumstances, is falling asleep at night."

http://www.harpers.org/archive/1997/02/0008270


From the bolded bit, i don't think this review should be taken seriously. If a person equates Asperger's syndrome with shyness, that person is completely ignorant.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby Alex123 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:59 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Alex123 wrote:It seems to me that CBT + exercise is much safer alternative, at least for some. Plus some Dhamma knowledge would really help. If a person has an emotional problem, I don't think that drugging them to the vegetable-state (where they can't do bad thing, but neither can they do good things) is such a good thing. Much better to try to help them develop some wisdom.

Some studies seem to suggest that anti-depressants are not much better than placebo, but have serious side effects as I've quoted above.
In other words, you really do not know what you are talking about.



I don't want to sound like know-it-all, and I accept the fact that studies that I've read could be wrong. I've read the handout on one anti-depressant that I was using and even the drug makers do not know how or why it works (if it works. For me it didn't do anything good).
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Re: psychiatric drugs and the fifth precept

Postby Alex123 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:02 pm

andre9999 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:In other words, you really do not know what you are talking about.


+1. Too much theorizing and not enough firsthand or secondhand experience.



I've tried a couple of anti-depressants and some of their side effects. I can guess why some people could easily go crazy when certain side effects occur.


PeterB wrote:I cannot speak with any knowledge of the USA scene pulga. I can tell you that currently in Europe tranqillisers and antidepressants are not " doled out". Not by any psychiatrists I know.


It is too easy in Canada to get anti-depressants. Just go to the GP and ask for it. Usually they'll give it to you with no problem. That was my experience.
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