Details of wrong view

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Lazy_eye
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Details of wrong view

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:36 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:11 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:23 pm


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kc2dpt
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:34 pm

- Peter


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Cittasanto
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:19 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Individual » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:34 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:16 pm

Spontaneous rebirth refers to rebirth in the heavens, in hell, or as hungry ghosts.

Mother and father have a special relationship to us. Killing one's mother or father (like killing an Arahant) is an evil deed with definite result — rebirth in hell after death (see the story of ). Killing any other human being does not definitely lead to rebirth in hell, and it is still possible to attain the Path and its Fruition in this very life to avoid that fate (see the story of or ).

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:24 am

I've been busy at work the past two days and didn't have the chance to thank you for all the responses. They have been very helpful.

LE

DarkDream
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby DarkDream » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:11 am

As been explained fairly well, one of the notions expressed have to do with the Vedic sacrifice and the denial that this will effect our post-mortem death. Also it is a denial of the heavens and the realm of the father's which was commonly believed you would go if the proper sacrifices were made.

The fact of the matter is that this promulgation of "wrong view" is a stock passage that was never spoken by the Buddha (it was taken out of context from Ajita Kesakambali in the Sāmaññaphala Sutta). If you notice the "wrong view" is a series of multiple views which carries with it the notion that it is wrong view to deny the effectiveness of the sacrifice. The Buddha always denouced the Vedic sacrifice.

I wrote more about this "wrong view" in my blog at:



--DarkDream

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mikenz66
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:40 am


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Lazy_eye
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:52 pm

Dark Dream,

You raise some interesting points. What I'm getting here is that the Buddha clearly sought to define his teaching against philosophical materialism. Those compiling the suttas were so intent on putting this point across that they simply quoted Ajita Kesakambali whenever they wanted to illustrate Wrong View.

I've read somewhere that despite the Buddha's disagreements with the religions of the day, he nevertheless believed religion (in general) was preferable to non-belief, as it makes the spiritual life possible -- why embark on a spiritual practice if you don't believe in spirituality? So, especially in talking to householders -- who would be getting the "mundane" edition of his teachings -- he would have discouraged them from embracing nihilistic attitudes and doubting the efficacy of religion.

Maybe if he were around today, he would use some Christian terminology when addressing Christians -- if the subject was religious life in general and the dangers posed by materialism.

Had an article I was going to link to, but of course now I can't find it...

LE
Last edited by Lazy_eye on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DarkDream
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby DarkDream » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:06 pm

Last edited by retrofuturist on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not label the views of others as "childish"... it is unneccessary

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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:50 pm


nathan
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:44 pm

There is about a thousand years of this kind of textual scrutiny in regards to the judeo-christian sacred scriptures and after all of that the corpus is, if anything, larger, and largely intact if not in much more robust condition overall. So, have at it. I fully expect that in about a thousand years the Tipitaka will look almost identical to today's Tipitaka and that these kinds of discussions will be held in very, very small rooms by a very, very few people.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby clw_uk » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:49 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

nathan
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby nathan » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:20 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby Individual » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:47 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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clw_uk
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:01 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

rowyourboat
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Re: Details of wrong view

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:24 pm

'spontaneously born (better: 'arisen')'('cuti utpada') refers to the idea that beings born in heavenly realms dont go through a pregnancy or childhood but are appear fully formed. this method of coming into existence is different from other methods.
With Metta

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