Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
Jhana4
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Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:44 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Alexei
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Alexei » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:18 pm


Jhana4
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:24 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Ben
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:47 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby cooran » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:27 am

Hello all,

The Buddha never gave a sole technique - he talked in slightly broader terms.

Can someone show me in the Anapanasati sutta where he stipulated that one should concentrate on the tip of the nose?

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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retrofuturist
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:56 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:16 am

Observing the sensations is mentioned in the Suttas, most notably in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, but as Chris mentions, meditation instructions in general, are in broad terms, not specific techniques.

Besides the tip of the nose, there are current meditation techniques of watching the abdomen, using hand motions, Buddho, and making awareness to the rise of the abdomen with the inhale and contraction with the exhale, among others. They may not be specifically mentioned, but they all involve observing the breath and sensations and all are certainly helpful.
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alan
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby alan » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:11 am

Goenka's method is not directly supported in the suttas. But doing a 10 day retreat can be useful in many other ways. Glad I did it. Won't do it again. Many people have benefited from it.

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Monkey Mind
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Monkey Mind » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:09 am

I suggest reading Goeka's book about the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta. He discusses why the tradition of U Ba Khin interprets the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta with such an emphasis on vedana, and reviews some of the other interpretations and why that tradition rejects those interpretations. I am no scholar, so I can't comment on the validity of this explanation.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

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vidar
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby vidar » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:45 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

rowyourboat
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:25 pm

The Dhyanasamadhi sutta which analayo quotes takes quite a stretching by him, to fit the body scan. IMO it would be a safer bet to say they are practicing vedananupassana with regards to the body. Looking for the external technique in the suttas is not meaningful- better to see if the basic practice of watching impermanence is present to determine authenticity.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Dmytro
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Dmytro » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:02 pm



mlswe
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby mlswe » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:35 pm

edit to: should practice more answer less
Last edited by mlswe on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rowyourboat
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:41 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Dmytro
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Dmytro » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:09 am



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Ben
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:55 am

Thanks Dmytro!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby PeterB » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:06 am

:goodpost:
What he said.

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:08 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:05 am

Hi Dmytro,

I think we are both aware that the emphasis on nimitta usage came much later. If pressed I would say that it is covered in 'breathing in with the mental fabrication' portion of the anapanasati sutta. Jhana is included in the sutta as the 8th step- releasing the mind- this is clearly ceto-vimutti, as opposed to panna-vimutti.

Practically many people don't develop clear nimittas, but are still capable of attaining to jhana. I have seen this happening. Therefore I believe the Buddha didn't persue the matter of the nimitta that much.

Focusing on a 'spot' allows the development of strong samadhi- which is quite useful- but what the Buddha is describing in the anapanasati sutta is the fulfillment of the Four Foundation of Mindfulness, using anapanasati- so it doesn't have to fit exactly into a samatha description of the progression of anapanasati (and it cannot).

I find practitioners following entirely a samatha progression, often tend to lack in a certain degree of sampajanna (clear comprehension), not knowing what is happening- just keenly concentrating.. That is not adequate to develop the perception of impermanence, as per the last tetrad of the sutta. Therefore I believe the Buddha begins practice by 'opening out' the mind a little bit (be aware whether you are breathing in or breathing out) and being more aware using an expanded scope-field of mindfulness (..of the body,mind, feelings etc, along with the breath) and finally leading to being aware of impermanence and the subsequent developments of the mind, while watching anicca.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Kenshou
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Re: Sutta Support for "Goenka's method" ?

Postby Kenshou » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:23 pm



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