The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom
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The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Dhammabodhi » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:19 pm

Here is the link to the articles:

http://nidahas.com/featured/

Thought some might find it useful. Apologies if this has already been posted before.

:anjali:
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-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Akuma » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:33 pm

An exceptional guy this Nanananda. Many thanks for that. :bow:
Do you - or anyone else - know perchance how old he is now?

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:46 pm

Hi Dhammabodhi,

Thanks for the reminder. Here is some previous discussion:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 120#p93042

And I've made a lot of use of Ven Nananda's scholarly analyses in the Study Group over the past few months:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewforum.php?f=25
e.g. http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 55#p113853

:anjali:
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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby alan » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:41 am

Just a quick read but something about it does not ring true.
Maybe it is just my distrustful nature. Or my lack of Pali. But I'd like know more about this Bkikkhu Yogananda before reading through the entire interview.

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby IanAnd » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:04 am

Akuma wrote:Do you - or anyone else - know perchance how old he is now?

Go here.

Early life

Ven. Nanananda was born in 1940 to a Buddhist family in Galle District in Sri Lanka.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby cooran » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:13 am

alan wrote:Just a quick read but something about it does not ring true.
Maybe it is just my distrustful nature. Or my lack of Pali. But I'd like know more about this Bkikkhu Yogananda before reading through the entire interview.


Yes, I would also.
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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby PeterB » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:32 am

i-ts all a b-it pec-uliar is-nt i-t ?

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Nyana » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:08 pm

alan wrote:Just a quick read but something about it does not ring true.

What do feel doesn't ring true?

PeterB wrote:i-ts all a b-it pec-uliar is-nt i-t ?

What precisely do you find peculiar about it?

All the best,

Geoff

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby PeterB » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:31 pm

Forget I spoke Geoff. I dont have the neccessary philological, philosophical or historical resources to take a view.

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Dhammabodhi » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:27 pm

Hi all,

I have no clue who Bhikkhu Yogananda is and did not try to find out, since I wasn't interested. From his website the only information available is that he is a monk in a forest monastery in Sri Lanka.

Personally I did not find anything fishy in the articles, I was rather struck by their erudite nature.

I do have a question for those who know Pali: what does paccaya mean?

Thanks :anjali:
-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:32 pm

Dhammabodhi wrote:I do have a question for those who know Pali: what does paccaya mean?


http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... tm#paccaya
Paccaya: 'condition', is something on which something else, the so-called 'conditioned thing', is dependent, and without which the latter cannot be. Many are the ways in which one thing, or one occurrence, may be the condition for some other thing, or occurrence. In the Patthāna, the last book of the Abhidhamma Pitaka comprising 6 large vols. in the Siamese edition, these 24 modes of conditionality are enumerated and explained, and then applied to all conceivable mental and physical phenomena and occurrences, and thus their conditioned nature is demonstrated.
...

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:37 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:
alan wrote:Just a quick read but something about it does not ring true.

What do feel doesn't ring true?

PeterB wrote:i-ts all a b-it pec-uliar is-nt i-t ?

What precisely do you find peculiar about it?

Not necessarily "peculiar" but the author has certain obvious points of view that I suspect are presented in much more black and white terms than Ven Nananda himself would assert.

:anjali:
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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Nyana » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:10 am

mikenz66 wrote:Not necessarily "peculiar" but the author has certain obvious points of view that I suspect are presented in much more black and white terms than Ven Nananda himself would assert.

Such as?

All the best,

Geoff

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby adeh » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 am

His interview with Ven. Ñanananda has been included in the 'Nibbana, the Mind Stilled' book.

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:57 am

Ñāṇa wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Not necessarily "peculiar" but the author has certain obvious points of view that I suspect are presented in much more black and white terms than Ven Nananda himself would assert.

Such as?

All the best,

Geoff

Such as implying that Ven Nananda has asserted that everything is unreal. I think Ven Nananda's interpretation is a bit more sophisticated than that.

:anjali:
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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Nyana » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:40 am

mikenz66 wrote:Such as implying that Ven Nananda has asserted that everything is unreal. I think Ven Nananda's interpretation is a bit more sophisticated than that.

Ven. Ñāṇananda is exposing the "myth of the given" and what he has referred to as the "relentless tyranny of the empirical consciousness" (Concept and Reality in Early Buddhist Thought, p. 32).

From Ven. Ñāṇananda's The Magic of the Mind, p. 63:

    It would indeed appear strange to us that in Buddhist psychology even contact and feeling – with which we are so intimate – are treated as ‘designations’ (paññatti). We might feel that this is an intrusion of the ‘designation’ into the jealously guarded recesses of the psyche. Yet this is not the case, for, in the very act of apperception contacts and feelings are reckoned, evaluated, defined, and designated on the basis of one’s latencies (i.e. the aggregates). Thus there is hardly any justification for regarding them as ‘the given’, though we are accustomed to take them for granted. In other words, what we are wont to treat as ‘the given,’ turns out to be ‘synthetic’ and ‘composite’ (saṅkhata).

And from his Concept and Reality In Early Buddhist Thought, p. 87:

    The primary significance of the formula of Dependent Arising lies here. Lists of phenomena, both mental and material, are linked together with the term "paccayā" or any of its equivalents, and the fact of their conditionality and non-substantiality is emphasized with the help of analysis and synthesis. Apart from serving the immediate purpose of their specific application, these formulas help us to attune our minds in order to gain paññā. Neither the words in these formulas, nor the formulas as such, are to be regarded as ultimate categories. We have to look not so much at them as through them. We must not miss the wood for the trees by dogmatically clinging to the words in the formulas as being ultimate categories. As concepts, they are merely the modes in which the flux of material and mental life has been arrested and split up in the realm of ideation....

Concept and Reality, pp. 55 - 56:

    Concepts – be they material or spiritual, worldly or transcendental – are not worthy of being grasped dogmatically. They are not to be treated as ultimate categories and are to be discarded in the course of the spiritual endeavour.... That the emancipated sage (muni) no longer clings even to such concepts as "nibbāna" or "detachment" (virāga) is clearly indicated in the following verse of the Sutta Nipāta:

    "For the Brahmin (the Muni) who has transcended all bounds, there is nothing that is grasped by knowing or by seeing. He is neither attached to attachment nor is he attached to detachment. In this world, he has grasped nothing as the highest." [Sn 795]

All the best,

Geoff

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:50 am

Yes, but in my reading of his texts he also very clear that it would be a mistake to see it all as illusion.

:anjali:
Best Wishes,
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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby alan » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:02 am

Agreed, Mike. I've taken another look, and again it just doesn't seem right. The voice presented as Nanananda's doesn't sound like his writings; his viewpoints seem tailored to an agenda.

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby Nyana » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:16 am

alan wrote:Agreed, Mike. I've taken another look, and again it just doesn't seem right. The voice presented as Nanananda's doesn't sound like his writings; his viewpoints seem tailored to an agenda.

And what agenda would that be?

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Re: The Heretic Sage- Interview with Bhante Ñāṇananda

Postby alan » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:56 am

An agenda meant to diminish, obscure, and distort.
That is just an opinion, and you, Geoff, are much more educated in these matters. I'll rely on your opinion. Do you think it is real, and worth reading? If so, I'll give it another try.


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