Raw Diet?

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.

Have you tried Raw diet?

I'm already eating raw foods.
5
13%
Once, I might try it again.
4
10%
Once, I'm not interested.
2
5%
I'll try it.
5
13%
I'm not interested.
24
60%
 
Total votes : 40

Re: Raw Diet?

Postby meindzai » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:02 pm

Jhana4 wrote:
meindzai wrote:But for the most part it's expensive, unrealistic, extreme, and alienating.


LOL. Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show? :)



It actually was pretty fun, believe it or not. Did I mention my raw apple pie? :)


I've been a vegan for over 15 years and a vegetarian for over 30 years. Raw foodists tend to turn up at many of our events and places. Your assessment of the the internet Raw crowd pretty much fits the real world raw crowd too. I do know some really down to Earth people who are "raw", but they are the minority and I don't really consider them to be raw foodists. The nice ones typically describe themselves in such terms as "50% raw" or "70% raw". In other words, they aren't raw foodists, they are just people who like to eat a lot of salads.



Yeah, I remember this distinction as well. I actually had a goal of being 50% raw, though not vegan- I thought this was reasonable. Right now it isn't, but a lot of that is economics.
Jhana4 wrote:Most of the articles Pollan publishes often revolves around him eating politically correct animal products most Americans can't afford. He hardly ever writes about "eating mostly plants" himself. This is a significant point given your criticism about raw foodism being expensive.


Yes, and this is an economic issue and personal issue, one that he's brought up. Our personal choice (my wife and I) is to spend more money on food than most people, (including the family of four we live with) which includes locally grown fruits and vegetables, and meat from a local butcher. That is our groceries and also our health plan, since we do not have benefits.

There is a problem both with the costs of food and what people are willing to spend on it. I've met even poor families who spend the least money per calories they can - so a cart stocked with pasta, rice, boxed foods, etc., but who will still somehow splurge on that video game for their kid. People actually should be spending more money on food, and less money on other things, but there is a problem with priorities and something not quite right with the economics of how it's sold (though I don't propose to know what the problem is exactly or how to fix it.)

On amazon.com organic, grass feed beef goes for $8 a pound. Grass fed steak goes for about $17 a pound. Canned, wild salmon goes for about $30 a pound. I live in a pricey urban area, but I can buy organic whole grains and legumes for about $2 a pound.


I haven't heard Pollan recommend this extreme, though perhaps he has, and perhaps this is the ideal. I've heard him recommend pretty much what we are doing, which is to buy local and organic when possible. We buy from a local butcher and pay about $60 for a bundle which lasts us about two weeks. We buy our vegetables from a farmers market (I try to go a few times a week) and then supplement with stuff from the grocery store. I think we pay about $120 a week for two of us, excluding the occasional meal out. We feel pretty good about our diet because we cook all our food and the local meats are fantastic.

A good friend of mine who is a yoga teacher and vegetarian, very health conscious, but not extreme, made a point about vegetarianism that stuck in my head. He said that it's possible that if you're not vegetarian/vegan, it might just not be in your karma to be so. He didn't mean that in mean way as "you are condemned to eat meat," but for some people it simply doesn't work as well in some particular life or some particular phase of life. The economics seem to bear this out. For myself, I simply cannot get satiated on a vegetarian diet. When I eat vegetarian I am just plain hungry and tired, which causes me to eat a lot more, so the economics don't seem to work in my favor. Not for lack of giving a serious go at it.

I still look to the vegan and raw food community for recipes and ideas, and there is a great raw food restaurant in Tampa that I like. Of course I have to eat again about 2 hours later, but it's great while it lasts.

-M
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:03 pm

PeterB wrote:Of course its quite possible Jhana4 that I mostly get to see the ones whose alienation has an angry edge...


I've been a vegan for over 15 years and a vegetarian for over 30 years. I've met and known a number of raw foodists as they turn up at some of our events and some of the places we like to go. The raw foodists you are seeing in your practice are probably the ones who are the healthy enough to go seek counseling. I've met some down to Earth raw foodists, but I don't really consider them to be raw foodists as they don't live that way 100% of the time.


fear of embodiment which often takes the form of blood phobia.


I don't recognize the term, but it sounds interesting. Is it something similar to adolescents who not yet being comfortable with their sexuality have a bit of a fetish for androgynous heart throbs?
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:19 pm

meindzai wrote:
Jhana4 wrote:
meindzai wrote:But for the most part it's expensive, unrealistic, extreme, and alienating.


LOL. Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show? :)



It actually was pretty fun, believe it or not. Did I mention my raw apple pie? :)



We have a local vegetarian group that is famous for renting out a hotel ballroom once a year to host a HUGE vegan buffet on Thanksgiving. The org is run by a committee of volunteers, so every year it is a battle between people who just want good food and people who want to enforce some misguided uber extreme health ideal. The menu shifts each year in regards as to who gets listened to the most. One year one of the deserts was "raw apple pie". Baked apples with almost no sweetness dropped on edible cardboard. Lots of leftovers.


There is a problem both with the costs of food and what people are willing to spend on it.


That is a point that it commonly made. People in other countries pay far more for food than Americans do. Personally, I think it is looking at the wrong end of things. I just don't think you will ever get large amounts of people to happily pay more for something they are used to paying much less for. I think one possible remedy is to use the hatred many Americans have for government handouts to get voters to pressure the federal government to end agricultural subsidies to big agro corps. Those subsidies keep the price of the worst foods artificially low. With those subsidies gone the price of produce would become competitive with a lot of the junk on the shelves.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby meindzai » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:00 pm

Jhana4 wrote:We have a local vegetarian group that is famous for renting out a hotel ballroom once a year to host a HUGE vegan buffet on Thanksgiving. The org is run by a committee of volunteers, so every year it is a battle between people who just want good food and people who want to enforce some misguided uber extreme health ideal. The menu shifts each year in regards as to who gets listened to the most. One year one of the deserts was "raw apple pie". Baked apples with almost no sweetness dropped on edible cardboard. Lots of leftovers.



Nah, that ain't it at all. It's uncooked apples, soaked in a blend of oranges and cinnamon (oh no, a spice!), in a crust made from soaked hazelnuts and almonds. I throw in some dried (oh no!) cranberries. It's something like that anyway. I never had leftovers! Of course my less than health conscious relatives slathered it with whipped cream, which they do with regular apple pie.


There is a problem both with the costs of food and what people are willing to spend on it.


That is a point that it commonly made. People in other countries pay far more for food than Americans do. Personally, I think it is looking at the wrong end of things. I just don't think you will ever get large amounts of people to happily pay more for something they are used to paying much less for. I think one possible remedy is to use the hatred many Americans have for government handouts to get voters to pressure the federal government to end agricultural subsidies to big agro corps. Those subsidies keep the price of the worst foods artificially low. With those subsidies gone the price of produce would become competitive with a lot of the junk on the shelves.[/quote]

Interesting idea, but I really have no idea which end to approach it from. For us it's a personal choice to spend a bit more and we're happy with it. We also have the option to spend less when we have too, which we like.

-M
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby VeganLiz » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:00 pm

I have been considering it. Soy and gluten has been making me sick lately, eating raw might make things easier for me.
"My actions are my only true belongings." Thich Nhat Hanh
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:26 pm

Greetings,

My wife does the shopping - I don't really have much input into it. Personally I'd be happy with something leaning in this direction, but she's quite fussy over what she eats and she just wouldn't go for it.

Rather than create dukkha on account of this, I just accept it as it is.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Individual » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:02 pm

Not healthy, and eating raw grains and meat was specifically forbidden by the Buddha.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:59 pm

Kind of sad that rule like that had to be made.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby meindzai » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:23 pm

Individual wrote:Not healthy, and eating raw grains and meat was specifically forbidden by the Buddha.


Neither do raw-foodists, who are vegan. They do not eat raw grains except perhaps if they are sprouted, which can be done with brown rice. At that point they are not really "grains" so much as sprouts. Raw grains would be pretty hard on the stomach, so that's not a bad rule at all.

In fact I think the rule about grains doesn't really have much to do with diet per se. It's lumped in their with receiving slaves, pigs, sheep, and women. Grains might be seen as a kind of currency since they can be used for crops.

Anyway :focus:


-M
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Nibbida » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:17 pm

PeterB wrote:Usually its a good way to worry mum/mom. Its a prolonged revenge for being born.


This makes sense. Eating disorders, especially anorexia, are part of a spectrum of obsessive-compulsive disorders. Perfectionism, ruminative thinking, and anger are also a part of this spectrum.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16391506
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18555057


A more recently proposed variant of eating disorders is "orthorexia nervosa," which means an obsessive concern with eating "right" foods:

http://www.orthorexia.com/
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby lochieka » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:44 am

Why do people say the raw food diet is unhealthy?? Do you have any prior knowledge about it??

The raw food diet is one of the most liveliest diets in the world. The raw food movement is increasing as the years go by. "If you want to feel alive, why eat dead (cooked) food"-Kristina (Rawfully Kristina)

The raw food diet will give you energy, vitality, and happiness. You will absorb a lot of nutrients, vitamins, and minerals than on the standard cooked food diet. It is the most natural and simple diet in life. Raw foodism isn't about obsessiveness over what is raw and what isn't. It is about living happily and eating simply. This isn't rocket science people!! Being raw doesn't mean you get alienated, you can still have a social life and be raw. Don't make it so complicated!!

If there is anyone interested in the raw food diet, and how to do it the right way with the right guidance, you should check out Fullyraw Kristina on Youtube or check out the book 80/10/10 by: DR. Douglas Graham (It is written by a real doctor!!)
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby marc108 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:30 pm

the raw food diet theory is based on flawed understanding of nutrition & how humans absorb nutrients unfortunately. it's not unhealthy, per say, but what makes it healthy is the high intake of fruits and vegetables... not that they are raw.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Magoo » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:01 am

the raw food diet theory is based on flawed understanding of nutrition & how humans absorb nutrients unfortunately. it's not unhealthy, per say, but what makes it healthy is the high intake of fruits and vegetables... not that they are raw


Chimps do pretty well on a diet of fruits and vegetables (mostly greens) and seem to live long lives free from the diseases that humans have created for themselves? I am not saying I am a chimp but my biology is very similar.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Magoo » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:07 am

Hi all,

I am a Raw Vegan Vegetarian?? Sound confusing...well it is. I have been vegetarian for a while for healthy eating reasons, but mostly out of kindness to the poor animals that suffered for my selfish tastebud pleasures. My awareness and contemplation on what I was actually doing by eating meat, rather than ignorance (thinking of the animal and the fear and the pain) made it too compelling a reason for me to stop eating meat. I am lucky, like many of us in here, that I have an absolute abudence of fresh, healthy options when it comes to food, that there is just no need for me to kill an animal for sustinance. As my meditation deepened and my practice has progressed, my awareness has increased even more and I tend to do a lot of things (right action) via right intention. So slowly, I started cutting out all animal products, as the process of obtaining milk and other things is also very invasive and painful to the animal.

But lately, about two months now, I have been eating Raw. Being Vegan, I enjoyed so much of the Raw foods (the deserts inlcuded) and loved the way they make me feel. The lightness after a meal, yet still so full of energy. I thought I would try and sustain a Raw diet for a period of time to see the effect it had on me. A "Self" experiment without a "self" of course??? I feel great and really enjoy the creativeness a raw diet inspires within the kitchen. I like preparing food so this aspect is just a bonus. A green smoothie in the morning for breakfast is one of the best things I have ever done for my body. No matter what happens in the future, I think these green smoothies are here to stay.

What the future holds...I am not sure (as none of us are!). I know I will not stay 100% Raw as I dont think there is a 100% need. A lot of earlier posts have some real validity to them about the pro's and con's, and there seems to be little research into how healthy a Raw diet is over a cooke diet in the long run. It seems to be "swings and roundabouts". Good for some things and not as good for others..and..vice versa. Also as posters have mentioned, O.C.D. could be a real problem that could develop and I think I have seen this in Raw foodists also...but there is not need to generalise here as it wouldnt be many.

I think my balance will be about 70% Raw. Most likely a Raw breakfast (smoothie or granola), Salad for lunch but the odd sandwhich thrown in and then the dinners will be a mix of Raw or cooked...but still healthy, unprocessed cooking ingredients, no meat and organic as much as possible. Keep it fairly relaxed and not create unwanted stress/suffering as this would not aide in my path to find peace and contentment and enlightenment.

Well that went longer than I thought...so sorry to bore. It just is a hard one to argue either way, as it is one which has valid arguments on both sides of the fence...If we are comparing HEALTHY cooking to RAW.

Ciao for now.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby marc108 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:24 pm

Magoo wrote:Chimps do pretty well on a diet of fruits and vegetables (mostly greens) and seem to live long lives free from the diseases that humans have created for themselves? I am not saying I am a chimp but my biology is very similar.


it's really not that similar, definitely not similar enough to make a comparison with human dietetics. most modern, nutritionally derived diseases are a result of over consumption of processed foods not from cooking foods in and of itself. cooking food increases the bio availability of most nutrients and drastically reduces the risk of contamination.

there's nothing wrong with eating your fruits and veggies raw, but the 'raw vegan' ideology is flawed. many of the reasons given for its superiority are not scientifically sound, re: more enzymes in food, etc. it also puts your at risk for major nutritional deficiencies, re: b12, omega 3:6 ratio, calcium, zinc, protein, etc. its a good alternative to standard diets for a lot of people, but its risky long term.

i think like you said a mix of raw and cooked is best.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Magoo » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:08 pm

cooking food increases the bio availability of most nutrients and drastically reduces the risk of contamination


I agree that cooking (eg Starchy foods) increases the bio availability, however I wouldnt agree that this is the case for most nutrients?

But these discussions could go on for ever as there are very valid arguments each way, with both healthy cooking and raw, providing many nutritional benefits that one may have over the other. Balance, awareness and knowledge is the key.

Just a little further though, Raw doesnt only mean uncooked , it does refer to unprocessed also, which is as you mentioned Marci is one of the great causes of illness and disease in the human diet. All the added rubish we put in processed foods so that white bread can be eaten a month after it has been baked and still feel as fresh as the day it was bought?

If the Buddha was on this forum I am pretty sure he may recomend the MIDDLE WAY once again.

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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby marc108 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:15 am

Magoo wrote:I agree that cooking (eg Starchy foods) increases the bio availability, however I wouldnt agree that this is the case for most nutrients?


not trying to get into a back and forth here, honestly :) but just for your own knowledge:

there's 2 external factors that influence nutrient availability: the actual amount in the food and the bioavailability, ie: how much can you get into your blood. cooking slightly decreases actual nutrient amounts in some cases, but increases availability. micronutrients (vits/mins) are contained within the cell wall, which is made of cellulose, which humans dont produce enzymes to digest. so the only way to them is chewing or by cooking, both of which break the cell wall and liberate the nutrient for digestion. proteins are also complex and folded like a crinkled piece of paper... cooking breaks the proteins apart and exposes a higher amount of surface area to your digestive enzymes.

i totally agree about the 'Middle Path' eating. i see a lot of people who eat obsessively, both healthily and unhealthily, but not many people who are more moderately. :anjali:
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Magoo » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:02 am

Hi Marci,

I am not trying to get into a back and forth either but very interested in nutrition particularly of late and open to learning the truths. I have no position other than eating healthy, after undertaking experiments with all diets (ie meat eating, junk eating, vegetarian, vegan and raw). Ac oupdl of points and questions though please?

cooking slightly decreases actual nutrient amounts in some cases, but increases availability.

I agree in some cases thsi would be true.

micronutrients (vits/mins) are contained within the cell wall, which is made of cellulose, which humans dont produce enzymes to digest. so the only way to them is chewing or by cooking, both of which break the cell wall and liberate the nutrient for digestion.


Another way of breaking the cell wall is using a Vitamix blender?

proteins are also complex and folded like a crinkled piece of paper


These protiens arent so complex within Green leafy vegetables in my understanding? (strange that leafy things are called vegeatbles but at this point they are)

Thanks again :namaste:
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:30 pm

- Which animals COOK food? If they do, how often?
- Cows weight as much as 2000 pounds, produce milk and give birth to calves. What do they eat?
- What about horses and other vegan animals?
- Male gorillas can weight as much as 400 pounds, and are much much stronger than humans. Do they cook food? Are they primary meat eaters? What do they mostly eat?

There are vegan bodybuilders or vegetarian MMA fighters. So veganism does not make growing large muscles impossible in humans.

Humans have technology. With Vitamix (I love it) one can easily and quickly consume large enough quantities of greens and fruits.
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Re: Raw Diet?

Postby marc108 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:33 pm

Magoo wrote:Another way of breaking the cell wall is using a Vitamix blender?


yes that would work


These protiens arent so complex within Green leafy vegetables in my understanding? (strange that leafy things are called vegeatbles but at this point they are)


yes, but you wouldnt be able to safely eat enough leafy greens to get an appreciable amount of protein.

- Which animals COOK food? If they do, how often?
- Cows weight as much as 2000 pounds, produce milk and give birth to calves. What do they eat?
- What about horses and other vegan animals?
- Male gorillas can weight as much as 400 pounds, and are much much stronger than humans. Do they cook food? Are they primary meat eaters? What do they mostly eat?


animal physiology and dietetics arent the same as humans. you cant make those type of comparisons between animals and humans... cows are fed grain & soy protein usually, and gorilllas eat 30+lbs of food per day. it's theorized, and likely, that cooking food is what gave humans their evolutionary advantage, supplying more calories.

There are vegan bodybuilders or vegetarian MMA fighters. So veganism does not make growing large muscles impossible in humans.


the issue isnt muscle size, but nutrient status. vegetarians will be fine... but vegans are unable to get certain nutrients at ALL without supplementation.
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