New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

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Is This Suitable for Vegans?

Yes
6
33%
No
11
61%
I will have to think about that
1
6%
 
Total votes : 18

New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:19 am

BBC News Article

If you're a vegan would you eat this? If not why not?
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:36 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:BBC News Article

If you're a vegan would you eat this? If not why not?


Its milk from a mammal and i would tend to view it as just that. I personally woudnt touch it. Sounds disgusting.
"Some people will hear about it and go yuck - but actually it's pure organic, free-range and totally natural."



"free - range" :rofl:
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby cooran » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:54 am

This is very sad.

A far better thing to do would be to become a donor of expressed breast milk to one of the many Milk Banks in the United Kingdom, so that babies of mothers who cannot produce enough milk will be able to have the best food available.

The United Kingdom Association for Milk Banking
http://www.ukamb.org/

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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:03 am

Greetings,

cooran wrote:A far better thing to do would be to become a donor of expressed breast milk to one of the many Milk Banks in the United Kingdom, so that babies of mothers who cannot produce enough milk will be able to have the best food available.

Alas, economies are built around greed rather than need.

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Retro. :)
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby PeterB » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:16 am

Leaving aside ( for now) commercialisation issues...what for example if product was free ? And the milk superfluous ?
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Ben » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:52 am

I really need to get out samsara, now.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:54 am

Ben wrote:I really need to get out samsara, now.

Don't we all
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Ben » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:04 am

Mawkish1983 wrote:
Ben wrote:I really need to get out samsara, now.

Don't we all
Yes, Mawk, you are right.
Reading that article just sparked my samvega. I hope it did for you too. And if not that, then perhaps something else.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Sylvester » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:22 am

Another stir/churn from 2003, this time in China-

http://wocview.wordpress.com/2003/01/30 ... nese-fury/

The exploitation of peasants in that case lends new meaning to being milked.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:30 am

Ben wrote:samvega

I had to look it up, but yes, that's a good description of my reaction.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby nobody12345 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:54 am

I have to retract my support.
I did not read the article but misunderstood that the Ice-cream is one of the new breeds from Trader Joes and Whole foods market.
I have just read the entire article.
I don't eat any dessert but even if I eat Ice-cream or dessert, I would not touch it.
Last edited by nobody12345 on Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Dharma_Bum » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:11 pm

I wouldn't eat it. I still view this as exploiting an animal and I am against that (just my opinion). Besides, I am not a big fan of ice-cream anyways.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Aloka » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:44 pm

I totally agree with Chris. This is very sad.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:31 pm

Definitely not. I am mostly vegan and would not eat this.

It's not that vegans are opposed to just cow milk, but rather to all milk, from any animal, which includes humans. Vegans support nursing for infants, but feel it is not necessary for any animal over the age of about 1 to 2. Humans are the only species that still consumes milk and milk products beyond the age of 1.

My avoidance of milk and milk products has more to do with nutrition than with any Dhamma teachings, although I am sure some dairy cows are mistreated, but not all.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:36 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:It's not that vegans are opposed to just cow milk, but rather to all milk, from any animal, which includes humans. Vegans support nursing for infants, but feel it is not necessary for any animal over the age of about 1 to 2. Humans are the only species that still consumes milk and milk products beyond the age of 1.


Actually, veganism is about ethics and not necessarily about nutrition. Veganism has only been around since 1944 when Donald Watson broke away from the Vegetarian Society Of The UK. He coined the world "vegan" to refer to the ethical belief that it is wrong to exploit animals.

Given that, I don't think most vegans would be keen on supporting an industry that would probably result in rooms full of poor women being hooked up to breast pumps and pumped full of drugs to produce a non-necessary food.
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One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby adeh » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:40 pm

Gee that turned me off my morning fruit and yogurt.....but aren't vegans vegans because they only eat fruit and vegetables? All the vegans I've ever known wouldn't touch dairy in a pink fit...much less human dairy products...I'm going to be trying to get those images out of my head all day....
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:51 pm

adeh wrote:Gee that turned me off my morning fruit and yogurt.....but aren't vegans vegans because they only eat fruit and vegetables?
.

Nope. Vegans are vegans because the word "vegan" was made by Donald Watson in 1944 to refer to a person who believes it is wrong to exploit animals ( use them for our own purposes only ). Obviously, someone can eat a vegan diet without being a vegan --- a person who hold that belief. You get a lot of that kind of confusion with various kinds of health nuts and diet extremists, like raw foodists, incorrectly claiming to be vegans.

Vegans eat many more things than just fruits and vegetables. Check this.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:36 pm

Jhana4 wrote:Vegans are vegans because the word "vegan" was made by Donald Watson in 1944 to refer to a person who believes it is wrong to exploit animals ( use them for our own purposes only ).
That's what I thought too. Of course, women could be exploited too. If this caught on they might be importing human milk from parts of the world where women don't have many rights or easy access to knowledge. Still, I'm a bit surprised at the number of objectors, since in this case the women don't seem to be exploited — its a blameless source of extra income from them working from home.

The Buddha allowed cows' milk specifically, but it seems from the Vibhanga that milk from goats, Yaks, Llamas, etc., would be allowed, but not milk from horses, elephants or humans.
Fresh butter must be made from the milk of any animal whose flesh is allowable.
I don't see any objection on health grounds, except that too much of anything is not a healthy diet. For someone trying to get weaned off a diet of meat and fish, milk and other dairy products would be a healthy source of proteins, calcium, and many other essential nutrients.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:46 pm

Jhana4 wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:It's not that vegans are opposed to just cow milk, but rather to all milk, from any animal, which includes humans. Vegans support nursing for infants, but feel it is not necessary for any animal over the age of about 1 to 2. Humans are the only species that still consumes milk and milk products beyond the age of 1.


Actually, veganism is about ethics and not necessarily about nutrition. Veganism has only been around since 1944 when Donald Watson broke away from the Vegetarian Society Of The UK. He coined the world "vegan" to refer to the ethical belief that it is wrong to exploit animals.


I am sure you are right about the original meaning of the term. But (perhaps incorrectly) since then the term has evolved to mean anyone who doesn't eat meat or animal products even if they don't hold the ethical views. From wikipedia:

Veganism is the practice of eliminating the use by human beings of non-human animal products. Ethical vegans reject the commodity status of animals and the use of animal products for any purpose, while dietary vegans or strict vegetarians eliminate them from the diet only.[1].

The term was coined in England by Donald Watson, who founded the British Vegan Society in 1944, and in 1960 H. Jay Dinshah started the American Vegan Society, linking it to the Jainist and Buddhist concept of ahimsa, the avoidance of violence against living things.[2] It is a small but growing movement. In 2009 one percent of Americans said they were vegan, and in 2007 two percent self-identified as vegan in the UK.[3] The number of vegan restaurants is increasing, and in certain endurance sports—for instance, the Ironman triathlon and the Ultramarathon—the top athletes are vegans.[2]

Well-planned vegan diets have been found to offer protection against obesity, heart and renal diseases, cancer, and rheumatoid arthritis. The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada regard such a diet as appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle, though they caution that poorly planned vegan diets can be deficient in Vitamin B12, iron, vitamin D, calcium, iodine, and omega-3 fatty acids.[4]


Note that people who don't eat animal products (and meat) are also called vegans as well as raw food vegans, who typically are focused on the nutritional reasons only (but not always as some are interested in both the nutrition and ethics).

Personally, I adopted the vegetarian diet for ethical reasons and then as I got older moved more toward a vegan diet for nutritional reasons, but still don't purchase meat for ethical reasons; so my interest is in both ethics and nutrition.
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Ben » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:04 pm

Dear Bhante,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Still, I'm a bit surprised at the number of objectors, since in this case the women don't seem to be exploited — its a blameless source of extra income from them working from home.
Repulsiveness of nutriment.
If this caught on they might be importing human milk from parts of the world where women don't have many rights or easy access to knowledge.
Samsara is filled with dangers.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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