Sexual Misconduct

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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phil
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by phil »

Ben wrote:
phil wrote: p.s I know this thread is about sexual misconduct, not celibacy, so I will now shut up about my new favourite pasttime.
Your perspective, Phil, is valuable in this discussion. There is no need to 'shut up'.
kind regards

Ben
Thank you Ben :smile:
Layperson celibacy is a very interesting topic but not here because sex in itself is not designated as misconduct by the Buddha, I shouldn't confuse the issues.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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Bodhisurfer
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Bodhisurfer »

Vossaga wrote:
If we think or reflect beyond the mere rules, the Buddha was primarily concerned with human beings living their lives with as much freedom from suffering as possible. Sex is included in the five precepts because it is an action that has the potential to cause suffering. ....

.... the Buddha advised action primarily motivated by lust is an unskilful action. Where as an action, such as a relationship, which includes lust but is primarily motivated by love & compassion (that is, regard for another's welfare) is skilful action....
very well put :thumbsup:
Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Even having consensual sex with a woman or man who has had too much to drink is sexual misconduct. I'm not talking about someone who is blind drunk and unable to consent, which is already regarded as rape, but to taking advantage of someone who's moral compass is lost after a few too many drinks.

In this case the woman was married, but even if she had not been, I would say that the man was blameworthy for having casual sex in these circumstances. Most traditional Buddhists would consider casual sex of any kind as sexual misconduct anyway, regardless of the eligibility of the sexual partner.

The consequences of casual sex can be serious.
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phil
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by phil »

Bodhisurfer wrote:
Vossaga wrote:
If we think or reflect beyond the mere rules, the Buddha was primarily concerned with human beings living their lives with as much freedom from suffering as possible. Sex is included in the five precepts because it is an action that has the potential to cause suffering. ....

.... the Buddha advised action primarily motivated by lust is an unskilful action. Where as an action, such as a relationship, which includes lust but is primarily motivated by love & compassion (that is, regard for another's welfare) is skilful action....
very well put :thumbsup:
Yes, well said. But also good material for reflecting on when there is really disinterested love and compassion for a partner, and when it is really about comfortable attachment and our own desire for well-being. Not to be extreme about it, but we can gradually develop more and more insight into that, I guess...My impression is that because of the way our minds have accumulated lobha and raga for so long, the likelihood of there being actions that are primarily movitivated by metta and karuna is pretty slim...which doesn't mean householders should stop having sex, but good to keep reflecting on what motivates it...
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
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adeh
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by adeh »

From 'In the Buddha's Word' Bhikkhu Bodhi, p. 376: Lay stream-enterers and once-returners, however, are not necessarily celibate. In the sutta the Buddha describes them as 'lay followers....clothed in white, enjoying sensual pleasures, who carry out my instruction, respond to my advice, have gone beyond doubt, become free from perplexity, gained intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teachers dispensation.' Thus, while some steam-enterers and once-returners may observe celibacy, this is by no means typical of these two classes.
The sutta quoted is MN 73.
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ground
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by ground »

phil wrote:
I do not feel that humour is appropriate in the context of what binds beings in samsara.
Hi Mingyur

I would never joke about any kind of sexual violence or anger, or about many other forms of delusion that lead to harmful behaviour. But there is something absurd about how the perception of sex is created as being something beautiful, so I can't help but find it humorous.
A sad absurdity, yes.
phil wrote:In any case, my apologies if you or anyone was offended.
I was not offended, just wanted to make this remark to call into mind the unfortunate background. I hope you were not offended by this.
phil wrote:Layperson celibacy is a very interesting topic ... sex in itself is not designated as misconduct by the Buddha...
Correct.

Kind regards
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by tiltbillings »

TMingyur wrote:
phil wrote:I take the issue seriously, but feel writing with humour about sex is the best way to write about it.
I do not feel that humour is appropriate in the context of what binds beings in samsara.


Kind regards
Let me get this straight, sex is not to be the object of humor?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ground
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by ground »

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
phil wrote:I take the issue seriously, but feel writing with humour about sex is the best way to write about it.
I do not feel that humour is appropriate in the context of what binds beings in samsara.


Kind regards
Let me get this straight, sex is not to be the object of humor?
in the context of beings being bound to samsara through it.

Do not try to deviate from this context!

Kind regards
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by tiltbillings »

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:]Let me get this straight, sex is not to be the object of humor?
in the context of beings being bound to samsara through it.

Do not try to deviate from this context!

Kind regards
I have not a clue as to what you are talking about here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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adeh
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by adeh »

TMingyur wrote: phil wrote:

I do not feel that humour is appropriate in the context of what binds beings in samsara.



Hi Mingyur

I would never joke about any kind of sexual violence or anger, or about many other forms of delusion that lead to harmful behaviour. But there is something absurd about how the perception of sex is created as being something beautiful, so I can't help but find it humorous.


A sad absurdity, yes.
I personally think this type of attitude to sexuality is just as unwholesome and unhealthy as one of overindulgence. Aversion to sexuality brings as much, if not more, suffering as it's opposite. This type of prudish aversion can bring about self loathing and ironically can be responsible for the worst types of sexual perversion. One only needs to look at the recent sex scandals in the Catholic church for evidence of the type of suffering and long term damage that is caused by unhealthy and repressive attitudes to sexuality. Shouldn't we be treading the middle path even when it comes to sexuality? Some of you seem to take the attitude that all sexuality is misconduct....and I don't think that is what the precept is about....it's about exercising your sexuality in a healthy and responsible manner and not causing suffering for yourself and others. Notice that in the quote from MN 73 the Buddha says that they are 'enjoying' sensual pleasures and not torturing themselves about it.....
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ground
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by ground »

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:]Let me get this straight, sex is not to be the object of humor?
in the context of beings being bound to samsara through it.

Do not try to deviate from this context!

Kind regards
I have not a clue as to what you are talking about here.
about the dangers of sex.

Kind regards
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by tiltbillings »

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I have not a clue as to what you are talking about here.
about the dangers of sex.

Kind regards
Is not sex dangerous no matter what in terms of samsara?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ground
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by ground »

adeh wrote:
TMingyur wrote: phil wrote:

I do not feel that humour is appropriate in the context of what binds beings in samsara.



Hi Mingyur

I would never joke about any kind of sexual violence or anger, or about many other forms of delusion that lead to harmful behaviour. But there is something absurd about how the perception of sex is created as being something beautiful, so I can't help but find it humorous.


A sad absurdity, yes.
I personally think this type of attitude to sexuality is just as unwholesome and unhealthy as one of overindulgence. Aversion to sexuality brings as much, if not more, suffering as it's opposite. This type of prudish aversion can bring about self loathing and ironically can be responsible for the worst types of sexual perversion. One only needs to look at the recent sex scandals in the Catholic church for evidence of the type of suffering and long term damage that is caused by unhealthy and repressive attitudes to sexuality. Shouldn't we be treading the middle path even when it comes to sexuality? Some of you seem to take the attitude that all sexuality is misconduct....and I don't think that is what the precept is about....it's about exercising your sexuality in a healthy and responsible manner and not causing suffering for yourself and others. Notice that in the quote from MN 73 the Buddha says that they are 'enjoying' sensual pleasures and not torturing themselves about it.....
Interesting how what may appear "unwholesome, aversion, suffering, prudish and a basis for perversion" to some may appear "wholesome, virtuous renouncing, joy, unbiased and a basis for liberation" to others.

Kind regards
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by tiltbillings »

TMingyur wrote:
adeh wrote:
TMingyur wrote: phil wrote:

I do not feel that humour is appropriate in the context of what binds beings in samsara.



Hi Mingyur

I would never joke about any kind of sexual violence or anger, or about many other forms of delusion that lead to harmful behaviour. But there is something absurd about how the perception of sex is created as being something beautiful, so I can't help but find it humorous.


A sad absurdity, yes.
I personally think this type of attitude to sexuality is just as unwholesome and unhealthy as one of overindulgence. Aversion to sexuality brings as much, if not more, suffering as it's opposite. This type of prudish aversion can bring about self loathing and ironically can be responsible for the worst types of sexual perversion. One only needs to look at the recent sex scandals in the Catholic church for evidence of the type of suffering and long term damage that is caused by unhealthy and repressive attitudes to sexuality. Shouldn't we be treading the middle path even when it comes to sexuality? Some of you seem to take the attitude that all sexuality is misconduct....and I don't think that is what the precept is about....it's about exercising your sexuality in a healthy and responsible manner and not causing suffering for yourself and others. Notice that in the quote from MN 73 the Buddha says that they are 'enjoying' sensual pleasures and not torturing themselves about it.....
Interesting how what may appear "unwholesome, aversion, suffering, prudish and a basis for perversion" to some may appear "wholesome, virtuous renouncing, joy, unbiased and a basis for liberation" to others.

Kind regards
This is supposed to answer my question?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ground
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by ground »

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I have not a clue as to what you are talking about here.
about the dangers of sex.

Kind regards
Is not sex dangerous no matter what in terms of samsara?
Now I am the one who does not understand ...
anyway ... to use the words of the Buddha (transl. by B. Boddhi). "the gratification and the dangers and the escape from" are to be considered.


Kind regards
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