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New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.

Is This Suitable for Vegans?

Yes
7
35%
No
12
60%
I will have to think about that
1
5%
 
Total votes: 20

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adeh
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby adeh » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:22 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:28 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:02 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:09 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

nobody12345
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby nobody12345 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:02 am

I have to retract my support.
I did not read the article but misunderstood that the Ice-cream is one of the new breeds from Trader Joes and Whole foods market.I have just read the entire article.
I don't eat any dessert but even if I eat Ice-cream or dessert, I would not touch it.

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:44 am

Surprised no-one brought up Tofutti as an alternative:

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:40 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Ben
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:04 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby cooran » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:13 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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octathlon
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby octathlon » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:56 pm

It certainly evokes a feeling of disgust in me. Kind of has a "cannibalistic" touch to it.

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:59 am

Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

silentone
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby silentone » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:45 am

There are so many babies that could benefit from this.

Its beyond decadent and grotesque. Its just the newest fad of "morbid" to enter our public sphere. Using another person's body for sustenance... is just so wrong.

Mothers and babies enjoy a "sacred" bond. To corrupt that in such a ... supremely selfish manner... is just... wrong.

I'm shocked its been allowed to go on this long.

I'm wondering what the long term effects on the women would be ? Osteoporosis ?

Having a baby and producing milk drains a women's calcium reserves, even when she is getting enough... to prolong this process after the development of the child for the enjoyment of an adult that does not need it is just ... sick.

silentone
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby silentone » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:41 am

one of the women in my church (growing up) had really really bad osteoporosis. I remember seeing her horribly distorted back and the women in the church would tell the children in private that it was because she had too many children without taking calcium supplements. during that period in American history, families were large, and nutrition was poor. she had a lot of children ... fourteen i believe.

How long would you really have to give milk before it would mimic the effects of multiple pregnancies? 5 years of doing this would be like having five children? If these women have already had several children (and some appear to have grey hair in the photo) then they could be putting themselves at a serious risk for long term health risks with their bones. Watching my own female family members suffer with bone problems makes me reflect on the sacrifice they made to bring me into this world. All of them... my great grand mother, down to (now my own mother) have had bone issues. Part of that is a result of the extraordinary calcium and nutrient input that goes into milk production. As I understand it these women were poor peasants living in very rural areas. It seems like its taking advantage of them and putting them at risk needlessly... just for the sake of decadence.

The focus did not seem to be on helping them. If people were willing to buy ice cream these women made with their own bodies.. then they certainly could have given them money for cows milk instead. If the emphasis were on helping the women, then another means could have been constructed to enrich them without harming their bodies. Instead though, I feel that THEY are being turned into the product. Their bodily fluids are being equated to that of a farm animal. Literally, the women's milk was being priced against other available forms of milk - all farm raised. I really am uncomfortable putting women in a category that allows a bodily fluid to be farmed.

From my perspective (and I know nothing of their hardships), I cannot fathom how the women are better off for the handful of cash they made off this.

If I'm being judgemental though, please explain. I'm often quick to judge.

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:53 am

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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:01 am


Euclid
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Euclid » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:16 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:22 am


Euclid
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby Euclid » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:31 am

Correct, 'illegal' was not the word used but was certainly the word implied. Saying you're shocked some practice has been legal for so long sort of implies you'd rather it wasn't.

As for expressing moral outrage and it having a place, yeah, perhaps. It doesn't have any inherint value though. Just reminds me of the crochety old folk who get up on a podium and blame the decline of moral fabric of society on gays and people working on a sunday.

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:43 am


silentone
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Re: New Kind of Ice-cream for Vegans

Postby silentone » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:31 am

I do think it should be illegal. However, the costs of making it actually safe could be prohibitive regardless. There is the issue of diseases. New classes of retroviruses are being discovered in humans. Even with cow's milk there is (now) a supposed danger with Bovine Leukemia Virus. Several new retroviruses have been identified in humans, and certainly these are possible sources of contamination that could be spread.

What happens in ten years when everybody that went to the ice cream shop gets some weird retrovirus? What happens we find out about other unknown effects? Humans stop drinking baby's milk for a reason.

But I think the source of your original post was that I was somehow attempting to legislate morality. First of all governments come with a set of ethics or morals. You can't have a rules without having reasons for them. Its really that simple. Frankly, as a gay person, I think your comparison is erroneous. I hardly think you can equate orientation (which I believe is a characteristic you are born with), to commodity exchange of bodily fluids.

Additionally, I do not believe corporations have freedoms or morals. They operate for the dollar. If women choose to individually sell their milk, sure let them. I think a private market for this could be an important step for mothers (who are willing) to share their milk with women who are unable to breatfeed (medication or disease), or perhaps even medical patients with some strange dietary requirements. Health exams would be necessary though with regulators to oversee it. Any market however would have to directly line the women up with buyers, and I do think that there should be recommendations and procedures in place to protect the health of the women. The funds should be directly transacted with no middle men and there should be health guidelines and limits placed on the amount that they can give. Even dairy farmers have limits and regulations. Even prostitutes have to submit to health exams. Even if you think that legislating such a practice is legislating morality (if not hygiene) there are still health considerations to be taken into account.

What I object to is a corporate adventure that turns women into commodities. There is no "morality" at stake when curtailing a corporation. They simply aren't people. They don't have morals, or rights. They have financial obligations and that is all. Yes I do think it should be illegal for corporations to control this process and to create a product market aimed at "mass' consumption. Corporations have impacts and effects: economic ones on communities and families. Those I believe we have a moral imperative to place legal limitations on. I think prostitution is horrible and has detrimental effects on women. I still believe it is their right to do what they want with their bodies. Having said that, I still think it should be illegal to having a "WalMart" style brothel. You can imagine the consequences.

Moral outrage here is appropriate, even if legislation is not.


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