Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

The latest news and updates about the Dhamma Wheel forum.
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by christopher::: »

I also agree, and think adosa's point is very much related to the OP...
adosa wrote: Maybe I have this whole practice wrong but how is blasting another human being part of the path? I'm sorry, but I can only imagine how [he] would feel after reading this. Am I missing something? PM him if you feel correcting his mistakes would be in his benefit but this.....?

adosa
From Jechbi's blog, again...
Aggression may have its appropriate and skillful application in certain situations, who knows? But I tend to believe that in general, aggression is incompatible with the goal of cultivating a healthy and helpful Dhamma discussion community on the Internet.
When is it okay to criticize another person publicly, and frequently, and when is it incompatible with the goal of cultivating a healthy and helpful Dhamma community on the Internet?

My own view is that lacking the assistance of voice tone, facial information and body language words printed here carry a bit more sting, may seem even more aggressive then they would on the outside. That's why being very mindful of applying the brahmaviharas when we are online can be so helpful.

But each of us has to take responsibility for that, and its sometimes very difficult, especially when someone else is pushing your buttons. We each have to disconnect our own buttons, no one else can do it for you, and blaming the other person can become a way of avoiding responsibility.

Isn't that a BIG part of what Dhamma practice is about?
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

There's been some good points raised and I'd like to pick them up in the established context of helping you improve your Dhamma Wheel experience.

From my point of view, the Terms Of Service represent the guidelines, or minimal standards for behaviour within the community. It's great if people want to go beyond those standards personally, but I don't think we can enforce our personal elevated standards upon others.

To that end...

1. If you think the Terms Of Service can be improved to better explain and make reference to the types of behaviour that you deem improper, please put forward your suggestions.

2. If you think that moderators need to enforce the Terms Of Service more rigorously with regards to a particular TOS component, again, please raise it. It will help draw our attention to it.

Perhaps someone, Christopher::: maybe, might like to start a new topic on this in the Suggestion Box? I'm just wary of this particular topic becoming a mish-mash of interconnected ideas that get lost along the way.

And again, if someone says something inappropriate in the forum itself, please try to avoid such discussion about standards within the actual topic, as that constitutes meta-discussion and is notorious for sending topics off-topic. There is the report button, there is the suggestion box... there is a proper channel for all these things.

Thanks.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by christopher::: »

retrofuturist wrote: Perhaps someone, Christopher::: maybe, might like to start a new topic on this in the Suggestion Box? I'm just wary of this particular topic becoming a mish-mash of interconnected ideas that get lost along the way.

And again, if someone says something inappropriate in the forum itself, please try to avoid such discussion about standards within the actual topic, as that constitutes meta-discussion and is notorious for sending topics off-topic. There is the report button, there is the suggestion box... there is a proper channel for all these things.
Hi Retro. I just bumped alive an older discussion on metta and meta-discussions. I also looked at the TOS and the situation looks complicated. The first and second TOS items seem to conflict at times, perhaps, in terms of prioritization for people. Some may view the first item (right speech) as a higher priority then the second, others view the second (disruption of the forum) as most important. People also seem to have very different ideas about what constitutes right speech and disruption. But maybe we should talk about this elsewhere, over there?

I'd want to get more people's views on this before starting a new topic in the Suggestion Box, though if this conflict seems clear to someone else and they would like to start a new topic, that would be great.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Jhana4
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Jhana4 »

I never read TOS statements. I believe if people post politely, like adults and try to stay mostly on topic, they will never have any problems. I've been on many forums and ran a few. Forums can be choked to death by too much moderation. Forums can also be moderated too weakly and go to hell with bickering overrunning it. The mods need to already have good judgment in them. A TOS will not do that. People started TOS statements to safeguard against the day trolls with bruised egos get lawyers involved. Gladly, that hasn't happened yet.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1602
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by appicchato »

I think that the mods and members including alan, are EXTRAORDINARILY patient with ........, who despite a number of very reasonable requests has made no effort to either improve his English or to glean even a basic knowledge of the Theravada.

People's abilities, disposition, temperament, level of attainment (in any area)...etc., are what makes the world go 'round...singling out someone who 'grates' on you: where is that?...did you ever consider that you might grate on some here?...but don't feel the need to highlight it to everyone else?...

Evaluating someone's effort, while not having the least inkling of that person, is basically out there...in (most) anyone's book...

The solution is so simple: skip anyone's posts you find aversive...it's not rocket science...

Be well...
User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1679
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by pilgrim »

I just want to point out that despite all the jibes thrown at Hanzze, he has remained remarkably good-natured . Frankly I'd feel more comfortable with his company than with those who have all the Theravada-theory but cannot resist taking pot-shots at a guy with poor language skills and who is trying to join the party. :focus:
User avatar
Nibbida
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:44 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Nibbida »

retrofuturist wrote: Most of the feedback that we receive from members is positive, but if you are experiencing any dissatisfaction with the way Dhamma Wheel is being managed, we would like to extend an open invitation to all members to raise discussion topics in the Suggestion Box and work with us collaboratively to improve this forum, for the betterment of all. We are volunteers with a genuine interest in making this a productive site for all members and for the online Buddhist community in general. Therefore, we would greatly appreciate any constructive feedback you could offer that may help improve people's experience with this forum.

Alternatively, you are welcome to post comments (either negative or positive) on the aforementioned blog about your Dhamma Wheel experiences without feeling as if you are jeopardizing your standing here at Dhamma Wheel by doing so. Dhamma Wheel staff decided that it would be inappropriate to ban or suspend the author of the blog simply for criticising Dhamma Wheel, so do feel free to speak your mind about your Dhamma Wheel experiences, whether you choose to do it via the Suggestion Box or at Lest It Be Soddened By The Rain. However, if you would like a guaranteed and prompt response from staff to your issue, we would recommend utilizing the Suggestion Box as we are here far more often than we are there.
The very fact that this is the response to a disgruntled member's blog speaks volumes to the strengths of Dhammawheel. I could not think of a more open-minded and productive response.

Whenever there is more than one person involved in a conversation (some people seem to only like to hear themselves), there are going to be differences in opinions and interpretations. Sometimes this pushes emotional buttons and things can get hairy. But if my practice means anything to me, then I try to apply it to what I do here. When I'm feeling the urge to debate beyond expressing a view, I examine whether there is clinging to views. When I feel annoyance, I watch that and see whether metta would be a more appropriate response. If I come on here, and spend a lot of time haggling and getting annoyed, it completely defeats the purpose. When I practice what I preach, it not only facilitates smoother discussions, it furthers my practice.
:anjali:
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Dan74 »

Like many here, I feel that overall this forum is remarkably well run.

That said it may be that the blogger has legitimate grievances (I don't have the time to go through so many posts at the moment). We all have our pet peeves and weaknesses and sometimes mods may make a snarky comment or exercise poor judgment. This is to be expected and it's commendable if the mods here are serious about trying to improve their skills and make the forum even better.

Of course what makes a forum really work is the commitment of the members continually bringing substance, sincerity and good will to the exchanges here. The reason I keep coming is because there is a critical number of such members here and a real drive to explore the Dhamma.

As for Hanzze, I don't have a problem with his posts. Sometimes I don't understand him and sometimes what he says does make good sense. If people feel like taking nasty pot-shots at him or any other member, I hope the mods make it clear that such behaviour is not welcome. It makes for a much more wholesome atmosphere on the forum.
_/|\_
alan
Posts: 3111
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by alan »

If anyone can tell me how to respond to Hannze without mocking him, I'd like to hear it.
Once, twice, OK. Three times, 6 times? How about every time? Let's face it--if every post is laughably dumb then the only response is to treat it like comic relief. Sorry if this offends those with tender senses, but Hannze has made no effort to clarify his thoughts, good-natured though they may be. Why should I take them seriously?
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Dan74 »

How about Ven Appicato's post above?

Just pass by, why comment if you don't have anything constructive to say?
_/|\_
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Ben »

Jhana4 wrote:I never read TOS statements.
I actually recommend it. The amount of times we, as mods, have had to pull up new members for inappropriate online behaviour only to discover they hadn't read the TOS. If I had a dollar for every time...
Jhana4 wrote: I believe if people post politely, like adults and try to stay mostly on topic, they will never have any problems.
That is the ideal. However, when people get involved so do their egos.
Jhana4 wrote:Forums can be choked to death by too much moderation. Forums can also be moderated too weakly and go to hell with bickering overrunning it. The mods need to already have good judgment in them.
Yes, we try and strike a balance here at DW.
Jhana4 wrote:A TOS will not do that. People started TOS statements to safeguard against the day trolls with bruised egos get lawyers involved. Gladly, that hasn't happened yet.
When we establishd DW, we were keen to encourage Dhamma discussion and that's what we had in mind with the framing of the TOS. A number of us have had experience moderating a number of different Buddhist discussion boards so there was some body of knowledge and experience with regards to what did and didn't work. The TOS has been edited and added to as time has gone on as different situations emergd. Its not framed to try and protect us against legal sanction but to communicate a statement of behavioural expectations and to encourage an environment where Dhamma discussion can occur.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Modus.Ponens »

alan wrote:If anyone can tell me how to respond to Hannze without mocking him, I'd like to hear it.
Once, twice, OK. Three times, 6 times? How about every time? Let's face it--if every post is laughably dumb then the only response is to treat it like comic relief. Sorry if this offends those with tender senses, but Hannze has made no effort to clarify his thoughts, good-natured though they may be. Why should I take them seriously?
What I would like to see explained is why you have to mock him instead of leting it be.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Viscid »

You've got an incredible range of people here including religious screwballs, schizophrenic nutjobs, rich scumbags, proud monks, respectable monks, humble monks, fakers, feminists, flakes and a few who are truly honest and compassionate. It's a bit of a mess which is to be expected from an online Internet forum, and I think the mods have done pretty good job managing it all. I've tried pushing boundaries here and there, and have found the mods actions to be predictable and fair enough.

Tilt is cranky, old and stubborn though, and I think you should ban him forever.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by Viscid »

Also, Hanzze is the most lovable person on this forum and you Hanzze-bashers have got no heart.
:heart: :heart: Hanzze :heart: :heart:
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Post by tiltbillings »

Viscid wrote:You've got an incredible range of people here including religious screwballs, schizophrenic nutjobs, rich scumbags, proud monks, respectable monks, humble monks, fakers, feminists, flakes and a few who are truly honest and compassionate. It's a bit of a mess which is to be expected from an online Internet forum, and I think the mods have done pretty good job managing it all. I've tried pushing boundaries here and there, and have found the mods actions to be predictable and fair enough.

Tilt is cranky, old and stubborn though, and I think you should ban him forever.
He certainly can be cranky and he does have a terse and sometimes pointy writing style, he is no longer a know-it-all twenty-something (thank the Goddess for that), though he is a know-a-few-things geezer, and he is certainly stubbron when debating a point; see these threads, which are objects of complaint by our blogger:


http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 49&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But he certainly will apologize when wrong and stupid, which does happen from time to time. As for banning forever, probably not a bad idea. He can then spend more time learning Irish verbs, which are only a bit less disconcerting at times than dealing with "religious screwballs, schizophrenic nutjobs, rich scumbags, proud monks, respectable monks, humble monks, fakers, feminists, flakes and a few who are truly honest and compassionate."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Locked