Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:39 am

Speak for yourself. I find Tilt's wit refreshing. :jumping:

Oh Tilt, you seriously are too patient, and don't give yourself enough credit.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:41 am

Maybe we should have a weekly ritual banning of Tilt to restore joy and mirth all around! :D
_/|\_
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:42 am

REJECTION.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Viscid » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:53 am

Was just kidding Tilt, I like your character. :rolleye:
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:01 am

Dan74 wrote:Maybe we should have a weekly ritual banning of Tilt to restore joy and mirth all around! :D
I would recommend an annual burning, especially if we could get Christopher Lee to preside over the event:

Image

Now, back to the main topic, please.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:02 am

Viscid wrote:Was just kidding Tilt, I like your character. :rolleye:
I know, and thank you.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:27 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:Speak for yourself. I find Tilt's wit refreshing. :jumping:

Oh Tilt, you seriously are too patient, and don't give yourself enough credit.
Thank you.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby zavk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:39 am

Hi all

I've had the privilege of meeting face-to-face three of the current mods, and knowing how they each have their day-to-day responsibilities to meet, much kudos to them for the effort they've put in. (Oh, this is not to say those whom I haven't met don't deserve kudos too... nudge nudge wink wink say no more). My comments:

- Re: the blog. It is a good move to acknowledge it. It is only fair to the blogger, the mods, and the members here. Well done.

- Re: the attitude shown towards certain members/the behaviour of certain members. I do not wish to comment about the people involve. But generally speaking, I personally have no problem ignoring things I find objectionable and would underscore what Ven. Appicchato said. But to regulate this is tricky because a particular post could be interpreted differently by different people. HOWEVER, if a number of people do express concerns, and especially if these people are regular readers/posters, then I think it is something that should be acknowledged and seriously considered.
With metta,
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jechbi » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:46 am

Thank you very much Retro for creating this thread, and for all of your hard work here. I would like to say again that I also believe Dhamma Wheel can be a great place for discussion, and I've never stopped being a Dhamma Wheel supporter. I've tried to make that clear on my blog. The entire blog enterprise was something that I tried to do with an attitude of friendship, and I acknowledge that it has not turned out as I expected. Although I have tried to preface most of the entries with praise for Dhamma Wheel and expressions of gratitude and good will, the feedback I have received indicates that these sentiments are not regarded as sincere. Please know that they are sincere.

The blog contains criticism. That's a touchy subject. Is it ever proper to offer public criticism? Should we ever speak out when we see things happening that appear to have a potentially harmful effect on others? Maybe not. I'm not sure the blog is the right thing to do, but doing nothing and saying nothing also didn't seem right.

I'm very happy that most people are having a wonderful experience with Dhamma Wheel. I suspect that there are also members whose experience has been less than wonderful. Some of them may already have left. Some of them may feel it's not worth speaking up. Some may be lurkers whose voices will not be heard. If you are interested in my concerns, the blog is there. There's no reason for me to go into detail here, and in any case, doing so would be a violation of TOS.

I did write this sentence: "The bottom line is that my experience at Dhamma Wheel has been by far the most negative experience I’ve ever had on the web." And that is a true statement. I am troubled by some of what I have encountered as a result of my interactions with Dhamma Wheel leadership. There have been serious and potentially damaging consequences for me as a result of creating the blog. Some of these I have discussed in the blog. Some of them I have not yet discussed. Some of the things I have been called, privately and publicly, are inappropriate, in my opinion.

I came to Dhamma Wheel for one purpose: To share Dhamma. I expected it to be an encouraging, collaborative environment. I expected to make Dhamma friends. Yes, I also expected debate and the occasional misunderstanding. I didn't expect to see name-calling, and I didn't expect to be subject to quite so much ridicule. What I have learned is that I should have left my expectations at the door.

The blog is there for its stated purpose, which is to create an open space where things can be aired that might otherwise not be aired. And it is also a place where people may feel free to post legitimate comments that are not allowed on Dhamma Wheel, or that Dhamma Wheel has made invisible for whatever reason. Maybe nobody will ever want to take advantage of such a venue, but it is there if anybody does.

Thank you David N. Snyder for this wonderful gift of Dhamma Wheel, and thank you Retro, Tilt, Ben and the rest for all your hard work moderating. I know it is not easy. I have never intended for my criticism to diminish in any way the valuable contributions that I know you all make.

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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:30 am

PeterB wrote:Actually I have mixed feelings...On the one hand it is a good thing to be open to criticism etc.
On the other hand it is an invitation to those addicted to meta discussion, circular argument, and in fact to anything that gives them reason to ignore their meditation cushion and/or meatworld Sangha.



Told ya..... ;)

The world and this forum will never run out of displacement activity.

People who have never resolved their mum/dad resentment.
People whose mum/dad resentment runs so deep they will never in this life become conscious of it.
People who have never resolved their sibling resentment, and so feel compelled to identify with what they see as the underdog by way of over compensation.
People whose main interest in Dhamma is therapeutic and who subsequently resent calls to take responsibilty for themselves.
People who are unhappily married and for whom creating a cyber personality free of such negativity as an outlet. Who then feel aggrieved when their cyberworld is just a reflection of their meatworld..
People whose ambitions are thwarted.

and so on.

" be ye lamps unto yourselves " dont try to fix the world...The man knew what he was about.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Sylvester » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:59 am

Well, I'm just glad that the Mods here keep a rein on things, each particular sub-forum having a customised rein for it, with regulation being done with a light touch.

I can't understand the complaint about the plaintiff feeling shut out. If anything, the Mods have been very generous in ensuring that no one faction monopolises or runs down the other.

But, a limit has to be, and has been drawn, to this generosity. I dread the day when DW becomes so ecumenical that it no longer lives as a forum for the Theravada. May it never come to pass that the Mods become so soft that they allow Mormons and Tom Cruises to over-run the place. :alien:
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:00 am

Amen to that Sylvester.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:05 am

Jechbi wrote:. . .
For all of what you have just written, I have a serious problem with it. Proclaiming that you are writing a blog in the spirit of friendship and the like does not really mitigate any of the ongoing criticism of me that pushes, in my opinion, towards character assassination in how you have spun your criticisms.

Of all the members of Dhamma Wheel, the moderation team has given your complaints more time and consideration than those of any other member here, but the results were not to your liking and almost a year later your blog shows up complaining about all that. Certainly your right. Much of what your have written in your blog entries is driven by your hurt feelings, as you made quite clear in your PMs to me, and which becomes clear in reading your blog entries themselves. You might want to ask yourself what role do you play and responsibility do you have in all of this drama. Is all of this negative energy generated by your hurt feelings really necessary for you or anyone else involved?

But let me make this direct, to the point. It was never my intent to be hurtful to you, but that does not excuse my behavior. By acts of commission and omission, for what I pain I have caused you, I am sorry.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:33 pm

alan wrote:If anyone can tell me how to respond to Hannze without mocking him, I'd like to hear it.



Dan74 wrote:How about Ven Appicato's post above?

Just pass by, why comment if you don't have anything constructive to say?



+ 1
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:47 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Jechbi wrote:. . .
For all of what you have just written, I have a serious problem with it. Proclaiming that you are writing a blog in the spirit of friendship and the like does not really mitigate any of the ongoing criticism


I've seen similar conflicts on other forums, with people putting up blogs to complain about forums. I think it is possible that Jechbi is one of the exceptions to the rule, but most of the time it is simply a matter of someone's ego getting bruised and that person putting up a blog to censure and embarrass someone else as a means of getting even.

It may have more to it, but this kind of thing is common on the internet and that is how most people ( right or wrong) are going to view it.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Aloka » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:06 pm

.

I know, lets all just have a party instead - and exchange warm kissie-huggies,tea and cakes!



Image
Last edited by Aloka on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:15 pm

LOL
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:25 pm

Jhana4 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Jechbi wrote:. . .
For all of what you have just written, I have a serious problem with it. Proclaiming that you are writing a blog in the spirit of friendship and the like does not really mitigate any of the ongoing criticism


I've seen similar conflicts on other forums, with people putting up blogs to complain about forums. I think it is possible that Jechbi is one of the exceptions to the rule, but most of the time it is simply a matter of someone's ego getting bruised and that person putting up a blog to censure and embarrass someone else as a means of getting even.
Which is pretty much what is going on, it would seem. In response to this blog entry several of the DM staff responded:

http://dhammawheel.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... nary-tale/

there is this blog entry:

http://dhammawheel.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... eadership/

I think you have characterized it accurately. Our Blogger, I am sure will beg to differ.

While it is a bit disconcerting to be the focus of something such as this, there is always something to be learned from what one has to deal with. The feedback here has helped me put this into perspective, and for that thank you - all of you.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby Jechbi » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:39 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Jechbi wrote:. . .
For all of what you have just written, I have a serious problem with it. Proclaiming that you are writing a blog in the spirit of friendship and the like does not really mitigate any of the ongoing criticism of me that pushes, in my opinion, towards character assassination in how you have spun your criticisms.

Of all the members of Dhamma Wheel, the moderation team has given your complaints more time and consideration than those of any other member here, but the results were not to your liking and almost a year later your blog shows up complaining about all that. Certainly your right. Much of what your have written in your blog entries is driven by your hurt feelings, as you made quite clear in your PMs to me, and which becomes clear in reading your blog entries themselves. You might want to ask yourself what role do you play and responsibility do you have in all of this drama. Is all of this negative energy generated by your hurt feelings really necessary for you or anyone else involved?

But let me make this direct, to the point. It was never my intent to be hurtful to you, but that does not excuse my behavior. By acts of commission and omission, for what I pain I have caused you, I am sorry.

Thank you, Tilt.

Some of what you've written here, I can't respond to in thread because it would be a violation of TOS and the report procedure if I were to discuss moderation actions here. With regard to my feelings, you may be surprised to know what my feelings are. As I shared by PM with another member here, even in the midst of our disagreements, Tilt, I have often felt a sense of camaraderie toward you. I can't really explain that feeling. My perspective is that feelings are not-self phenomena, rising and passing away. If and when I have had hurt feelings, I have tried to check them at the door before posting a comment on the blog, or publicly here.

I have certainly asked myself what role and responsibility I play in this drama. I take full responsibility for my own reactions to the circumstances I face.

By the same token, in most of these discussions, publicly and privately, when I have brought things up, the tables always seem to turn and the topic always seems to change so that it's about me, even when I say that I don't want it to be about me. I hope that this following comment does not violate TOS, but the pattern has been that when I try to discuss mod actions, my specific concerns are not addressed, and instead I receive criticism back that calls into questions my own motivations and my own behavior. I don't mind being criticized, Tilt. But if somebody criticizes me, I don't think it's appropriate for me to ignore that criticism and then criticize them back instead, and then to tell them they can't take criticism when they call me on it.

I don't want to get into all the minutiae, because nobody else is going to care. As I've told you privately by PM, I apologize to you for those instances when I've slipped and made a personal jab in the course of our often heated exchanges.

The blog would not have come into existence if Dhamma Wheel had a place on the board where members could offer public criticism of moderator conduct and moderator decisions. I don't see the problem with having that as an option. If people are not interested in that type of meta discussion, then they don't have to read it. But there will be times when the line between "moderator" and "member" is not clear, because of course moderators are going to participate with members in discussions.

In this thread, for example, I'm skirting very close to the line of violating your TOS and report procedures, because I'm talking to some extent about moderator actions. Theoretically, I could be banned for this, although I don't expect that to happen. Likewise, at times when I've responded with legitimate posts, they've been made invisible and I've been warned because part of the post also could be construed as commenting on moderator action. That makes it very difficult sometimes to engage in threads with moderators. I hope you can see why that is so.

Thank you for your hard work, Tilt.
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Re: Open invitation: Help us improve your DW experience!

Postby christopher::: » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 pm

The administration at DW has acknowledged your greivences Jechbi, they've given you the chance to present your perspective publicly here, which is in many ways an attack on Tilt's character. He's apologized. The ball is now in your court.

Can you drop it, just let go? Dhammapada first verses style...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Last edited by christopher::: on Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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