Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:59 am

I am bhikkhusirin form Myanmar.
I have to write M.A thesis for my M.A Buddhism.
My friends and I decided to translate Atthakatha into English.
But I have a little book on English Atthakatha Translation.
I wanna know whether all Pali Atthakathas are in English version and where I can buy them.
Please my friends, help me.

Contact me please: bhikkhusirin@gmail.com
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Dmytro » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:08 pm

Dear Bhante,

The list of English translations is available at:

http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm

Only a few volumes of Atthakatha are translated.

Metta, Dmytro
User avatar
Dmytro
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:25 am

Thanks for your aid.
But Buddhist Legends, the Book of Dhammapada Commentary in http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm is not a real Atthakatha,
(BTW, It can be downloaded from www.archive.org)
It is only a commentary, not an Atthakatha of English Translation.
I need a commentary translated Word by Word.
Now, for my teacher's support, I had a book Dhammapada Commentary Word by Word translation for first 3 sections.
It is distributed from Union Buddha Sasana Council.
We (my friend and me) therefore decided to translate another sections.

Ok. With Loving-kindness...
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby cooran » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:45 am

Hello Bhante,

Have you tried asking at the All Things Pali group?
This is a forum for anyone with an interest in Pali language and literature, as well as Pali translation works.
Main discussion topics:
1. Tipitaka and sutta study
2. Pali language and literature
3. Theravada Buddhism
4. Samatha (Tranquillity) and Vipassana (Insight) meditation
5. Sutta study tools and methodology
6. Pali translation theory and practice
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/

with metta and respect,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
 
Posts: 7614
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Dmytro » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:33 am

bhikkhusirin wrote:I need a commentary translated Word by Word.


Please look more carefully at the page http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm

The English titles of translations are given at: http://www.palitext.com/subpages/comm.htm

As for Dhammapada Atthakatha, the explanation of terms (missing in Buddhist Legends) is translated in:

Carter, John Ross and Mahinda Palihawadana.
The Dhammapada: A New English Translation with the Pali Text and the First English Translation of the Commentary's Explanation of the Verses with Notes.
New York: Oxford University Press. 1987.

I have seen the Union Buddha Sasana Council edition you mentioned. Unfortunately the translation there is of poor quality.
User avatar
Dmytro
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:39 am

Grateful to all.
I will try for my work.
But I don't understand the words:
I have seen the Union Buddha Sasana Council edition you mentioned. Unfortunately the translation there is of poor quality.

Do you mean the edition is not proper for reference or paper are not good.
I don't know what you mean "of poor quality".
Now I am surfing Carter, John Ross and Mahinda Palihawadana's The Dhammapada to be downloaded.
Anyhow I must say Thanks a lot.

with loving-kindness...
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Kare » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:03 pm

My general impression is that the Atthakathas are very difficult to translate. You can translate the stories contained in the Atthakathas, but the grammatical analyses are so closely tied up to the Pali language of the Tipitaka texts, that they often give very little meaning if you try to translate them as they stand. When I translated the Therigatha and the Theragatha into Norwegian, I translated the biographical material about each thera and theri. But I did not try to translate the grammatical analyses of the verses. Instead, I just used those parts as an aid while translating the verses.
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
Kare
 
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Dmytro » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:16 am

Dear Bhante,

bhikkhusirin wrote:Do you mean the edition is not proper for reference or paper are not good.


I mean that the key terms are poorly translated. The Pali terms require careful approach (there's a link to Pali terms research in my signature).

Now I am surfing Carter, John Ross and Mahinda Palihawadana's The Dhammapada to be downloaded.


As far as I know, it's not available for download on the Internet.

The printed version is inexpensive:

http://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-Saying ... 24-5024023

However, if necessary, I can help with obtaining it.

Metta, Dmytro
User avatar
Dmytro
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:11 am

Kare wrote:My general impression is that the Atthakathas are very difficult to translate. You can translate the stories contained in the Atthakathas, but the grammatical analyses are so closely tied up to the Pali language of the Tipitaka texts, that they often give very little meaning if you try to translate them as they stand. When I translated the Therigatha and the Theragatha into Norwegian, I translated the biographical material about each thera and theri. But I did not try to translate the grammatical analyses of the verses. Instead, I just used those parts as an aid while translating the verses.


Thanks a lot for your impression.
But, here I need to say something. My thesis is to translate Dhammapada Atthakatha into English word by word.
I therefore have no choice to interpret only the stories.
And concerning the words "grammatical analyses of the verses", I also must say more.
It must be admitted that grammatical analyses of the verses are very difficult task. But for our Myanmar scholars, the idea appears that without depending on Atthakatha (commentary) and Tika (subcommentary), one cannot translate Pali words correctly.
In our university, English reference books translated by Myanmar scholars are more valuable than others.
Because some Myanmar scholars have an opinion that some English versions are translated without studying commentaries (Atthakathas) and subcommentary (Tika) thoroughly, and accordingly some of them shouldn't be accepted as correct editions, on the other hand, Myanmar scholars have to study Tipitaka with Atthakatha (commentary) and Tika (subcommentary) etc and as a result, their translations are more suitable for reference.
I therefore, for my thesis, have to translate word by word. It is my task.

With Metta...
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:19 am

I mean that the key terms are poorly translated. The Pali terms require careful approach.

As to this matter, it will be proper not to say something. However, I must say some facts. It can be said that those translations are out-of-date nowaday because of their period. Some say that in comparing many translations of Dhammapada, current English translations are up to standard because of the present time. So, it must be said that although those translations are outdated, at the same time they are classical. Our task for now is to change old words into Current English.

(there's a link to Pali terms research in my signature)

I wanna know it. Please show me links. (I know your site, http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/) But there are many links to be searched.

As far as I know, it's not available for download on the Internet.
The printed version is inexpensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Dhammapada-Saying ... 24-5024023
However, if necessary, I can help with obtaining it.
Metta, Dmytro

Thanks. If you can help me, it is a great task for me.
Though it is inexpensive, I have difficulty to buy it because I don't know how to buy, and there is no agency in our country.

With Metta...
bhikkhusirin@gmail.com
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Kare » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:31 am

bhikkhusirin wrote:
Kare wrote:My general impression is that the Atthakathas are very difficult to translate. You can translate the stories contained in the Atthakathas, but the grammatical analyses are so closely tied up to the Pali language of the Tipitaka texts, that they often give very little meaning if you try to translate them as they stand. When I translated the Therigatha and the Theragatha into Norwegian, I translated the biographical material about each thera and theri. But I did not try to translate the grammatical analyses of the verses. Instead, I just used those parts as an aid while translating the verses.


Thanks a lot for your impression.
But, here I need to say something. My thesis is to translate Dhammapada Atthakatha into English word by word.
I therefore have no choice to interpret only the stories.
And concerning the words "grammatical analyses of the verses", I also must say more.
It must be admitted that grammatical analyses of the verses are very difficult task. But for our Myanmar scholars, the idea appears that without depending on Atthakatha (commentary) and Tika (subcommentary), one cannot translate Pali words correctly.
In our university, English reference books translated by Myanmar scholars are more valuable than others.
Because some Myanmar scholars have an opinion that some English versions are translated without studying commentaries (Atthakathas) and subcommentary (Tika) thoroughly, and accordingly some of them shouldn't be accepted as correct editions, on the other hand, Myanmar scholars have to study Tipitaka with Atthakatha (commentary) and Tika (subcommentary) etc and as a result, their translations are more suitable for reference.
I therefore, for my thesis, have to translate word by word. It is my task.

With Metta...


Maybe you misunderstand me a little. I agree that it is useful to study the commentaries in order to translate the Tipitaka. But the commentaries should be studied in Pali, not in translation. Only then can their real relevance to the Tipitaka texts be seen. Therefore there is no need to translate the commentaries - at least not those parts of the commentaries that are purely linguistic. The stories can of course be translated. But the linguistic analyses in the commentaries are both unnecessary and very difficult to translate. But if this really is you task, I wish you the best of luck!
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
Kare
 
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Dmytro » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:59 pm

Dear Bhante,

bhikkhusirin wrote:I wanna know it. Please show me links.


They are on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6114

Thanks. If you can help me, it is a great task for me.
Though it is inexpensive, I have difficulty to buy it because I don't know how to buy, and there is no agency in our country.


OK, I have written to my friend, and we'll sort it out, but it may take some time.

With Metta, Dmytro
User avatar
Dmytro
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:40 pm

Maybe you misunderstand me a little. I agree that it is useful to study the commentaries in order to translate the Tipitaka. But the commentaries should be studied in Pali, not in translation. Only then can their real relevance to the Tipitaka texts be seen. Therefore there is no need to translate the commentaries - at least not those parts of the commentaries that are purely linguistic. The stories can of course be translated. But the linguistic analyses in the commentaries are both unnecessary and very difficult to translate. But if this really is you task, I wish you the best of luck!


Yes, I am wrong. So sorry for that. :anjali:
In our country, as you know, we, buddhist monks, have to study commentaries in Pali not in translation.
It is an original study method for us.
"The linguistic analyses in the commentaries are both unnecessary" in your opinions makes me think a lot.
I can't say so now. That is the reason why for several people there is no time to study Atthakatha in Pali, but English translations of Atthakatha (commentray) are more constructive, suitable and timesaving. I therefore, in my opinion, it is essential at all to translate the commentaries into English or other languages.
For the readers of commentray translations, firstly, it is difficult to understand them. But sooner or later they can be appreciated.

With Metta...
bhikkhusirin
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby bhikkhusirin » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:03 pm

They are on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6114

Now I reach above link.
Thank you very much for your posts here and there.

Thanks. If you can help me, it is a great task for me.
Though it is inexpensive, I have difficulty to buy it because I don't know how to buy, and there is no agency in our country.


OK, I have written to my friend, and we'll sort it out, but it may take some time.

I can't wait for you. I must go on my task.
However, Thanks.

With Metta...
bhikkhusirin
bhikkhusirin
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Help me please, Pali Atthakatha English Translation

Postby Kare » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:03 pm

bhikkhusirin wrote:
Maybe you misunderstand me a little. I agree that it is useful to study the commentaries in order to translate the Tipitaka. But the commentaries should be studied in Pali, not in translation. Only then can their real relevance to the Tipitaka texts be seen. Therefore there is no need to translate the commentaries - at least not those parts of the commentaries that are purely linguistic. The stories can of course be translated. But the linguistic analyses in the commentaries are both unnecessary and very difficult to translate. But if this really is you task, I wish you the best of luck!


Yes, I am wrong. So sorry for that. :anjali:
In our country, as you know, we, buddhist monks, have to study commentaries in Pali not in translation.
It is an original study method for us.
"The linguistic analyses in the commentaries are both unnecessary" in your opinions makes me think a lot.
I can't say so now. That is the reason why for several people there is no time to study Atthakatha in Pali, but English translations of Atthakatha (commentray) are more constructive, suitable and timesaving. I therefore, in my opinion, it is essential at all to translate the commentaries into English or other languages.
For the readers of commentray translations, firstly, it is difficult to understand them. But sooner or later they can be appreciated.

With Metta...
bhikkhusirin


Bhante,

I fully agree with you that the commentaries in Pali are useful. But I think that the grammatical analyses in the commentaries in Pali are mostly useful for understanding the Tipitaka texts in Pali, since they are in Pali and refer to specific Pali words and grammatical details. Therefore it is difficult - to say it mildly - to translate these passages in any meaningful way. But if you want to try and translate them, I of course have no objection, and I wish you luck with the task.
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
Kare
 
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway


Return to Pali

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests