Australian Brahmic Buddhism

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Dmytro
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Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dmytro » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Hello,

I am trying to come to terms with the new type of Buddhism that Brahmavamso and his colleagues represent. Formerly Brahmavamso has been a student of Ven. Ajahn Chah, and member of the Thai Forest Sangha, but after his expulsion he makes a lot of strange statements like: "Buddha Gotama is not a Sammasambuddha, since he studied with previous Buddhas".

The videos and statements like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOZtpCo3Vpk

make me wonder, what kind of Buddhist tradition is that.

So far I would call it "Australian Brahmic Buddhism".

Its typical features I observed are:

- Reliance on Sarvastivada Chinese Agamas, which are considered more reliable that Pali Nikayas;
- Usage of Dharmagupta Vinaya lineage for nuns ordination;
- The notion that the jhanas don't invlove any physical perception, lead by themselves to Nibbana, and there can be no attachment to jhanas;
- The notion that Nirodha-samapatti is essentially the same as Nibbana;
- Rejection of Pali Commentaries.

The origin of this kind of Buddhism can be traced to the works of Roderick Bucknell, former monk and scholar of Agama texts, but I would call it "Brahmic" since Brahmavamso gave it a defined form.

Any thoughts of how this new lineage may be called, and its relationship to Theravada?

Dmytro


PeterB
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby PeterB » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:55 pm

With a heavy heart I have to say that I am struggling with the same issue.

It appears to me that Brahmavamso is periously close to being a schismatic. And may have crossed the Rubicon.

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robertk
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby robertk » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:09 pm

I disagree with all the points that you say ven. Brahmavamso makes, however he is correct , according to theravada tradition, that there cannot be any perception of rupa while in any Jhana.

rowyourboat
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:13 pm

Does he seriuosly say that it is possible to get to nirodhasamapatti without breaking all of the lower fetters, through vipassana?
With Metta

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IanAnd
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby IanAnd » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:58 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Vardali
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Vardali » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:46 pm


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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby darvki » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:23 pm


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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:31 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Kenshou » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:45 pm

"Letting go" is nice but I daresay it's just not that simple. There are qualities which should be intentionally cultivated, in addition to those that should be given up. And until the right wholesome qualities are mature, I suspect that understanding and the relinquishment that follows are probably not going to be very deeply liberating.

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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby darvki » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:00 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:08 am


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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:17 am


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Dan74
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dan74 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:50 am

Just to point out that this video was made prior to Ajahn Brahm's expulsion. And expulsion was over the ordination of women issue not any perceived heresies.

I'd like to see clearly where people say that he diverges from what the Buddha taught.

He is a populariser, so he does "dumb it down" to some extent. And I understand if people take exception to this and to his manner. But what about the actual content? Where does he diverge?
_/|\_

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robertk
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby robertk » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:18 am


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pilgrim
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby pilgrim » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:28 am

Every teacher has his own style of teaching and his particular emphasis. I don't think it is fair or even accurate to say this constitutes a new tradition.

And isn't every Theravada bhikkhuni including the thousands in Sri Lanka descended from the Dharmagupta lineage.

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Dmytro
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dmytro » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:56 am



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pilgrim
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby pilgrim » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:28 am

I agree to a number of the statements by Aj Brahm, but I don't want to get into a lenghty discussion on this. I just want to point out that the Siladhara of Amaravati are not bhikkhunis. The Siladharas . like Thai Mae Chi, Cambodia Doun chi, Sri Lankan Dasasilamathas are modern day improvisations and do not have a recognised lineage.

All the present day Theravada bhikkhunis in one way or another started their ordination from the Mahayana nuns , which would mean the Dharmagupta lineage. So "Aj Brahm's nuns" are not special in this way.

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Dmytro
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dmytro » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:46 am



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Dan74
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dan74 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:49 am

Dmytro, what I mostly am getting from your lengthy post is that the chief problem with the teachings of Ajahn Brahm is the overemphasis on letting go and the likely development of samatha at the expense of vipassana. Is that right?

I recall Ajahn Chah teaching that samatha and vipassana are like two wings of a bird - both necessary for meditation to be successful. Do you think Ajahn Brahm has turned his back on this teaching?

I recall him speaking about this at a conference in Perth but don't remember the details anymore. But maybe I can get that DVD..
_/|\_


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