Taking members seriously

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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Fede » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:58 am

He's not crusading to educate anyone. he's ranting.
And it's still bad form.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:08 am

No rant was intended.

I'm glad other people have had a much more positive experience here. Best wishes.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Annapurna » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:20 am

Jechbi wrote:.

One other thing to note: Having made this suggestion at DW's invitation, I now find that the tables are turned, and I am on the defensive, answering further criticism about myself. This, too, has been an ongoing pattern, and it is one of the things I have been concerned about.



Hi, Jechbi, surely no rant was intended. No offence was meant on my side.

But I think this offer is best applied to 'fresh' cases.

You may find that things are different now.

Like, I am vexed when people refer to things I said years ago, -I'm not the same anymore... :smile:

:smile:
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:41 am

Thank you, Annapurna.

Annapurna wrote:But I think this offer is best applied to 'fresh' cases.

You're probably right, but I understood Retro's invitation differently:
retrofuturist wrote:Clearly you feel there are grievances unresolved about how things work here - would it help you to frame each as a suggestion in the Suggestion Box?

We can all work them through, one at a time. It is still "healthy, collaborative Dhamma discussion" you're after isn't it? If so, here's your chance.

So based on that, I thought I'd send up a trial balloon. I've personally had the experience described in the OP, and my perception is that it has happened to more than one member. At least one other person has expressed to me off-board that sometimes it seems like some members of the mod/admin team are hard on certain members. None of this was meant to be a rant. And as I mentioned in the OP, I think most of the time things are positive.

I'm used to being around people who are accustomed to receiving public criticism. I once witnessed a colleague sit through a meeting during which a prominent public official lavished criticism on him that clearly was personal and unfair. At the end of that, he said, "Thank you," and he smiled. Afterward, he shook hands with the person who had offered the criticism. I was impressed with that. I'm not as good at accepting criticism as he is, but I'm working on it. I also can appreciate how difficult it can be for others to accept criticism that they view as unfair.

I've said before and I'll say again: I appreciate the hard work that goes into Dhamma Wheel, and none of this has ever been intended to diminish from that. I thought I had some legitimate points, based on my experience. I'm told that I don't. That's fine. I'm glad people have good experiences here.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:48 am

Jechbi wrote:I've said before and I'll say again: I appreciate the hard work that goes into Dhamma Wheel, and none of this has ever been intended to diminish from that. I thought I had some legitimate points, based on my experience. I'm told that I don't. That's fine. I'm glad people have good experiences here.
{{{Sigh}}}} No one is telling you do not have legitimate grievances, though i would wonder why you hang on to some of these grievance for so long and put so much energy into them.

It seems, J, you have gotten a lot of strongly negative feedback here on the Dhamma Wheel and on your blog, which really may be telling you something about how you are going about it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:52 am

tiltbillings wrote:No one is telling you do not have legitimate grievances ...

Then I misunderstood. I thought that's what I was being told.
tiltbillings wrote:... you have gotten a lot of strongly negative feedback here on the Dhamma Wheel and on your blog, which really may be telling you something about how you are going about it.

I agree with you.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby PeterB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:23 am

I never thought that I would grow nostalgic for Malcom Smith...
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:19 am

PeterB wrote:I never thought that I would grow nostalgic for Malcom Smith...


Image

:D
_/|\_
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:38 am

As much as I sometimes disagreed with Namdrol, he had some remarkable things to offer. He's still a member here, I believe.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby PeterB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:41 am

He would certainly have given your self pity short shrift Jechbi.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:43 am

I can just see it now...

Image

:D

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Dan74 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:46 am

retrofuturist wrote:I can just see it now...

Image

:D

Metta,
Retro. :)


:clap:
_/|\_
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Annapurna » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:08 am

Hm...

I find most helpful as an occasional reminder this suttha....that's not to say I am able to do it.


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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:09 pm

I wasn't motivated by self pity so much as a sense that others might have had the same kind of experience here that I've had and that I've seen.

I understood Retro's invitation to be this: If I felt there were problems worth addressing and discussing, then I was invited to come here to the suggestion box and make a thread, if that would be helpful. So I did that.

An objection I have had is that it seems to me that people are not treated as kindly here as they should expect to be on a Dhamma discussion board. I imagined that other people might feel the same way. I thought it was worth having a public discussion about. I understood Retro's suggestion to mean that I could open such a discussion safely, and that it would be welcome. Clearly, I misunderstood.

One thing has become obvious: Under no circumstances will public criticism of the mod/admin team be acceptable to the mod/admin team or to most members here. It's said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I was expecting different results this time, in this thread. Maybe that was crazy.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:19 pm

btw, Annapurna, thanks for the sutta link. It is familiar to me: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3130&p=45459
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:39 pm

Jechbi;

I think the more often you post complaints the greater is the likelihood that people will see you as being the problem.....whether that is correct or incorrect. You are going to open yourself up to a lot of unfair criticism which will only make you feel more wronged.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:43 pm

Jechbi wrote:An objection I have had is that it seems to me that people are not treated as kindly here as they should expect to be on a Dhamma discussion board. I imagined that other people might feel the same way. I thought it was worth having a public discussion about. I understood Retro's suggestion to mean that I could open such a discussion safely, and that it would be welcome. Clearly, I misunderstood.
Maybe you went about it a bit ham-handedly. If you failed, it could actually be your fault.

One thing has become obvious: Under no circumstances will public criticism of the mod/admin team be acceptable to the mod/admin team or to most members here. It's said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I was expecting different results this time, in this thread. Maybe that was crazy.
And this very thread and your comments in it belies your statement. You certainly have criticized me as, in your opinion, a moderator acting badly, which is what you set out to do, but I think as the object of your criticism, I should be able to respond to the criticism as should others here as they see fit, since you put this out there publicly. That is what has happened. What did you think would happen? I am not allowed to respond to the public criticism directed at me? What exactly do you want here?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:45 pm

No doubt, Jhana4, and there are times of course when I have done just that. We've all done that, I'm sure, because it's in the nature of life to face those types of situations sometimes.

I completely misunderstood the invitation to post in this suggestion box, thinking that in this one case, it would be acceptable here to offer this feedback.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:51 pm

tiltbillings wrote:What exactly do you want here?
In this thread, I wanted what I thought had been offered: a helpful discussion. I wasn't looking for or expecting more fireworks.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Taking members seriously

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:56 pm

Jechbi wrote:I completely misunderstood the invitation to post in this suggestion box, thinking that in this one case, it would be acceptable here to offer this feedback.


It is acceptable to offer feedback, look at the length of this thread( or that it exists at all). That doesn't mean that people are going to agree with you.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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