Rebirth: Where are all of the people coming from?

[Kenshou]

"As before so too now, I teach only suffering and the cessation of suffering" paraphrases this idea.

I've been looking for the source to that-- I've seen it quoted everywhere. Know where it's from?

Maybe this?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Viscid]

Also, are we asking where all the souls are coming from?

Are there separate souls or are we all of the same essence?

[Viscid]

Maybe this?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe. That translation doesn't have the same poignancy to it, though.

[bodom]

"As before so too now, I teach only suffering and the cessation of suffering" paraphrases this idea.

I've been looking for the source to that-- I've seen it quoted everywhere. Know where it's from?

Its from the Alagaddupama Sutta...

"Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only stress and the cessation of stress.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Viscid]

Its from the Alagaddupama Sutta...

[Alex123]

That is just pushing the question back to where did all of the animals and other-realm people come from.

From other realms. Gain in one realm may imply loss in another realm(s). We are aware only of two realms, human and animal realm. More humans may mean less beings in another realm.

Rebirth is central to the talking about the dhamma as the Pali Canon has stopping rebirth as a core goal of almost everything it advises people to do.

Right.

[nobody12345]

That is a common mistake some make who are new to the idea of rebirth; that they must come from other humans. In fact the Buddha said that human birth is very rare. There are gazillions of other realms, there are the 31 planes of existence and within them there are other realms. Even the hell realms have beings that get reborn.

Well said.
Metta.

[fabianfred]

Answers can and should be adapted to the audience.

Here, the audience is ready for the Pali canon.

My opinion is that feeling less uncomfortable with a fantastic story by virtue of having been exposed to it more does not make it less fantastic, just more familiar. It is still about evidence.

No disrespect.

Evidence....BS! Another one who is in love with the scientific Western view that karma/rebirth/realms etc. is unproven and there is no evidence for it.
Do the practice and you will get the evidence!
Wait for others to get the evidence which they cannot share with you and you will wait forever.
With a name like jahna4 you are on the wrong path anyway....try Vipassana.

[fabianfred]

At one time the Exalted One was staying at Vesali…Then the Exalted One, taking
up a little dust on the tip of his fingernail, addressed the bhikkhus, saying: ‘bhikkhus,
what do you think about this? Which is the greater, this little dust which I have taken up
on the tip of my fingernail, or this mighty earth?’
‘Why, Lord, this is the greater, this mighty earth: extremely small is this dust –it
cannot be reckoned, it cannot be compared with it. It does not come to the merest fraction
of a part of it when set beside the mighty earth.’
‘Just so, bhikkhus, few are those beings who are reborn among men: more
numerous are those beings who are reborn other than men; in the nether realms, in hells,
as creatures and animals and other woeful states.’

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Personally I find questions of this ilk rather futile.

If you knew the answer, what then? Would it actually make any difference to anything?

There's a difference between knowing for knowing's sake, or knowing Dhamma, which can be applied to alleviate suffering.

Metta,
Retro.

[Vossaga (Element)]

That is a common mistake some make who are new to the idea of rebirth; that they must come from other humans. In fact the Buddha said that human birth is very rare. There are gazillions of other realms, there are the 31 planes of existence and within them there are other realms. Even the hell realms have beings that get reborn.

David's answer is certainly a reasonable answer. However, does it not somewhat put into question the matter of karmic inheritance? For example, have the animals & hell beings made some kind of merit to be reborn human. Similarly, have some of the gods been a little naughtly to fall to earth but not fall as far down as hell?

[Aloka]

.

I recall one of my previous Vajrayana teachers declaring that sentient beings could reincarnate onto Earth from other planets . I was gladdened by this, because I often felt like an alien from the planet Zog.

[fabianfred]

That is a common mistake some make who are new to the idea of rebirth; that they must come from other humans. In fact the Buddha said that human birth is very rare. There are gazillions of other realms, there are the 31 planes of existence and within them there are other realms. Even the hell realms have beings that get reborn.

David's answer is certainly a reasonable answer. However, does it not somewhat put into question the matter of karmic inheritance? For example, have the animals & hell beings made some kind of merit to be reborn human. Similarly, have some of the gods been a little naughtly to fall to earth but not fall as far down as hell?

since the past is seen as infinite we have all been accumulating both good and bad karma since beginningless time... we therefore have stores of both.
When a being takes rebirth in the animal realm it does so as a result of bad karma which will be used up over many lives and when it is fortunate it will regain human rebirth. This does not mean that all the bad karma is gone, just that which caused the rebirth in the animal realm and perhaps some bad karma created whilst there too.
The being in the heaven realm could still have much bad karma in store and awaiting its chance to bear fruit.

[meindzai]

On the rarity of human rebirth....

When you consider all the possible beings in all the different realms of existence, [some very large number] and you consider the possibility of them being born into one particular realm, like the human realm [some significantly smaller number of beings] then indeed, rebirth from one of those realms to the human realm would be extremely rare.

Though I do think there is evidence (Canonical I mean, not anecdotal) that a human has a pretty good shot at being reborn in that same realm. Of course we know this is the fact in the case of anybody with any sort of attainment (stream entry or above). There are cases in the Canon of the Buddha himself recalling past human lives. The Buddha talks of the causes of people being born into fortunate or unfortunate (human) circumstances as a result of fortunate or unfortunate (human) past actions.

My reading of suttas such as the Kukkuravatika and the Sankhārupapatti Sutta tell me that we can directly influence our rebirth by our actions in this life, and that a lot of it has to do with ones state of mind - dog state of mind, ox state of mind, human state of mind.

So, rare in general, but perhaps not so rare for us who area already in the "human club." That's just my opinion based on my interpretation of the above.

Any "increase" we see here is a result of a combination of factors, of which kamma is only one.

As far as evidence collected from people recollecting this or that, I find it intriguing, but it doesn't do much to support rebirth. I could come up with a number of equally wildly speculative explanations about why a person would remember such a thing. I could also probably come up with some rather mundane theories.

As for the usefulness of pondering such a thing?

It can be a bit of a diversion. But it may help us understand the law of kamma a little better.

-M

[beeblebrox]

I think a more interesting question is... where does all of these insects come from? There are 10 quintillion of them (10,000,000,000,000,000,000... or 1 billion, 10 billion times) according to this link.

Several enlightening studies have been conducted involving the numbers of individual insects in a given area. In North Carolina, soil samples to a depth of 5 inches yielded a calculation that there were approximately 124 million animals per acre, of which 90 million were mites, 28 million were springtails, and 4.5 million were other insects.

I think many people don't really comprehend the numbers. If there were 7 billion people on earth... and you're managing to liberate around 1,000 of them per day (you're a super-bodhisattva), or 365,000 per year... that means that it'll take you around 20,000 years to complete your task.

With the insects (you're now an insect bodhisattva)... you're managing to liberate around 100,000 per day (you're more experienced by now), or 36,500,000 per year... that means it'll take you around 280 billion years, before you get them all. 10 quintillion of them... everywhere.