akaliko -timeless

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pilgrim
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akaliko -timeless

Post by pilgrim »

Dhamma is described as "akaliko" which is translated as timeless but i've read 2 different meanings
1. immediatly effective
2. true in all three times (past, present and future)

Which is correct?
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BlackBird
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by BlackBird »

pilgrim wrote:Dhamma is described as "akaliko" which is translated as timeless but i've read 2 different meanings
1. immediatly effective
2. true in all three times (past, present and future)

Which is correct?
Personally I would say neither - and with gusto.

A - negative prefix
kalika - time

akalika - not-time, not-to-do-with-time, not concerned with time.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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cooran
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by cooran »

Hello pilgrim,

Hope this helps:

From Great Virtues of the Dhamma by Ven. K. Sri Dhammananda

(3) Akaliko
Akaliko implied that the beneficial effects to be derived from the practice of the Dhamma would not be delayed. The Dhamma, despite the length of time that has elapsed since its pronouncement, remains ever fresh and unchallenged. It runs parallel even with the latest scientific thought. If there is truth, that truth can never become old. Dhamma is that Truth which cannot grow old with age since it depicts the reality underlying all phenomenal existence in Samsara. Briefly, the Dhamma states that the world is unsatisfactory and that greed happens to be the inevitable cause of this state of affairs. The remedy for this unsatisfactoriness is the eradication of greed to be achieved through the practice of eight skilful factors known as the noble Eightfold Path.
http://www.purifymind.com/Introduction.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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tiltbillings
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by tiltbillings »

BlackBird wrote:
pilgrim wrote:Dhamma is described as "akaliko" which is translated as timeless but i've read 2 different meanings
1. immediatly effective
2. true in all three times (past, present and future)

Which is correct?
Personally I would say neither - and with gusto.

A - negative prefix
kalika - time

akalika - not-time, not-to-do-with-time, not concerned with time.
Pali idiom very often uses negative constructions to say something positive
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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plwk
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by plwk »

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pilgrim
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by pilgrim »

plwk wrote:Without delay
Thanks.. that settles it
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kirk5a
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by kirk5a »

Ever heard a really big bell? It doesn't just have a single tone actually. It resonates on several levels.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
PeterB
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by PeterB »

BlackBird wrote:
pilgrim wrote:Dhamma is described as "akaliko" which is translated as timeless but i've read 2 different meanings
1. immediatly effective
2. true in all three times (past, present and future)

Which is correct?
Personally I would say neither - and with gusto.

A - negative prefix
kalika - time

akalika - not-time, not-to-do-with-time, not concerned with time.
:namaste: Correct
PeterB
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by PeterB »

plwk wrote:Without delay

Not incorrect but conventional.
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piotr
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by piotr »

I think we should also contemplate what the term ‘dhamma’ refers to in this context. This may sort out some puzzles.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Assaji
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by Assaji »

pilgrim wrote:Dhamma is described as "akaliko" which is translated as timeless but i've read 2 different meanings
1. immediatly effective
2. true in all three times (past, present and future)

Which is correct?
From the Margaret Cone's dictionary:

akālika,
1. not dependent on time; not limited to a particular time; immediate, immediately effective;
2. not at a usual or expected time; unseasonable;
Critical Pali Dictionary:

a-kālika, mfn., 1. out of season, exceptional; Mil 114,7 (~aṁ kadācuppattikaṁ). —
2. immediate, present, at hand; Ja III 394,19'; in the formula:
sanditthiko, ~o, ehipassiko, etc., DN II 93,32 (Vism 216,16); AN I 156,28 (Mp), 227,13 (Mp); — Sn 567 (Pj) = MN ch. 92 (Ps), Sn 1137 (Nidd II, Nidd-a, Pj) (sandiṭṭhikaṁ ~aṁ); SN II 58,4 = IV 328,21 (dhammena ditthena viditena ~ena pattena pariyogāḷhena) (Spk).

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piotr
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by piotr »

Hi,

BTW There's interesting article on this by Johannes Bronkhorst: http://my.unil.ch/serval/document/BIB_74F9A3157D8D.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:reading:
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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gavesako
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by gavesako »

Something related in this article:

"The dhamma which is described as "sandiṭṭhika akālika ehipassika" is, I think, nibbāna itself, which contrary to, for example, Jain belief is attainable in this life not only after death. So I believe that akālika has nothing to do with workings of paṭiccasamuppāda but describes nature of Buddhist goal."

http://jayarava.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/timeless.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Holdan
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by Holdan »

gavesako wrote:So I believe that akālika has nothing to do with workings of paṭiccasamuppāda...
MN 38 seems to offer little, if no, support for this view of Jayarava. In MN 38, Buddha provides both extensive discourse & questioning of monks about paṭiccasamuppāda, which concludes:
Good, monks. You have been guided by me in this Dhamma which is to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the observant for themselves. For it has been said, 'This Dhamma is to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be by the observant for themselves,' and it was in reference to this that it was said.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
To add:
Now, the Blessed One has said, "Whoever sees paṭiccasamuppāda sees the Dhamma; whoever sees the Dhamma sees paṭiccasamuppāda."

MN 28
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Ceisiwr
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Re: akaliko -timeless

Post by Ceisiwr »

pilgrim wrote:Dhamma is described as "akaliko" which is translated as timeless but i've read 2 different meanings
1. immediatly effective
2. true in all three times (past, present and future)

Which is correct?

Both?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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