Fasting and frugality in food

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lovemygreys
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by lovemygreys »

I do intermittent fasting most of the week - about 16 hours a day (I basically just eat two meals between noon and 8pm). Not for religious reasons, that just seems to be the eating window that works best for me. I occasionally do a 24 hour fast, but not often. After exhausting the glycogen stored in the muscles and liver, you're basically running off of body fat for energy and many folks report better energy and clearer thinking/better ability to focus. I absolutely prefer to workout in a fasted state. I think how you feel during a fast kinda depends on what your non-fasting diet is like. When I'm carb-dependent, fasting is hard. When I eat low carb, it's pretty easy - up to about the 24 hour mark.

I probably wouldn't fast longer than 24 hours...I don't really see the point or benefit for me, personally. But, who knows....maybe I'll give a three day fast a try when my meditation practice is better. :meditate: Physiologically, we should be able to go 2-3 days without eating with no problems. That's why we store fat. Surviving short intervals w/o food and without decreased mental and physical function was an important evolutionary adaptation for humans, as well as being able to slow the metabolism for long term starvation/famine/fasts...some studies show that metabolic rate actually increases during short-term fasts (36-60hrs) and the increase of epinephrine and epinephrine sharpens mental function (link and link).

For me, obsessing about food and even over-eating certain foods can be a problem (there is definitely a monthly hormonal element to my food cravings). My husband recently offered to bring me home a couple donuts and I actually told him: "No, if I can't eat as many as I want then I don't want any." Um...yeah...that's a problem, IMO. I typically eat a very healthy, nutrient-dense diet, but occasionally go off the rails and find some reason to justify stuffing myself with pizza or donuts. Meh. So, moderation int both eating and in thinking about foods is something I'm working on currently....
Goofaholix wrote: It's a good idea to take enemas as this flushes the toxins out faster and reduces the headaches etc that come from too many toxins released too quickly
I have to disagree with this. There should be no reason to take an enema. Your body has plenty of mechanisms in place to constantly be removing toxins from your body...not just during a fast. Headaches don't come from too many toxins released to quickly (please explain the physiological mechanism for this if possible). Headaches from caffeine withdrawal, sure. Headaches from unstable blood sugar, possibly. Toxins, no. Not if your liver, kidneys and digestive tract are all intact and functioning. An enema will actually disrupt the normal bacterial flora of your GI tract.
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Bunjers
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Bunjers »

Thanks everyone :) and sorry for the delay in replying.

I thought I would try the water fast out, so the Sunday before last I didn't eat anything, but at midnight I ate some food. I think that shocked my system or something and left me susceptible to illness because I got a head cold (although possibly it didn't help trying to meditate on the roof, covered in blankets, with the cold winds whipping round me!) Lots of nose blowing and catarrh. It's wore off in a coupla days.

In the last week I have spent two (non-consecutive) days juice fasting with spinach and fruit smoothies. That made me feel very awake and alive and healthy, so the idea of a short, as in 3 day, green juice fast is something that quite appeals to me. I would not like to do longer because it's expensive and apparently side-effects can include "fainting, dizziness, low blood pressure, heart arrhythmias, weight loss, hunger, vomiting, diarrhea, and kidney problems." (from http://altmedicine.about.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It's a confusing issue for me whether I would consider water fasts as part of the middle way. If I understand right, what Ven. Maha Bua was saying, to paraphrase, was, if you can take it then it might be a useful practice but if it just turns into another distraction, then it's not for you.
So I reckon it must be something to be handled with caution.

In any case, I think the most important thing is for me is to just eat healthily (I have been vegan for a while, but lately have slipped up on that and haven't been eating particularly well) and exercise, as simple as that! And also getting into a better sleeping pattern... which is difficult because I'm stuck in this staying up to 5am thing :|

Thanks for the quote daverupa, as an overfed Westerner I am in very much in the kind of position only a king (or high-caste) would have in the Buddha's time, having the problem of having too much food available to eat rather than not enough, which is sadly of course still a huge problem in the world! I have put the verse (gatha, is that the right Pali word?) on the fridge, it is a good reminder for me and my family :smile:

Jhana4, it's funny you mentioned 'Fasting & Eating for Health' by Joel Fuhrman. I read Fasting & Eating a few years back, and read 'Eat to Live' the other week. On pg. 185 of Fasting and Eating he says about not having overweight people fast, but first adopting healthy eating and lifestyle and then maybe fasting a little if they want to, to shed the last few stubborn pounds. He also says "a weekend fast every once in a while would give the body a brief internal rest and cleaning." (pg. 217) But his main message, as detailed in Eat to Live is a high-fruit & and high-greenery filled, nutrient packed diet. I will concentrate on good diet.

I am confused by the language of "detox." Detoxification is mentioned a lot in Fuhrman's book and in a lot of more alt. medicine literature. I have heard before that the whole detox thing is just a myth. As lovemygreys said, the body has many mechanisms for removing toxins. I've never heard a proper scientific explanation of detoxification, and why fasting might be necessary to make that happen, would be interesting to hear one.

Thanks again :anjali:
Gāravo ca nivāto ca, Santutthi ca kataññutā, Kālena dhammasavanam, Etam mangalamuttamam :anjali:
meindzai
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by meindzai »

I used to water fast for 3-5 days at a time, which I found very renewing. Usually it got me back on track as far as healthy eating for a good long time afterwards. When I would start to drift some more I'd do it again. It definitely changes what your body craves.

Later I found that kind of fasting very difficult, but I did do the "lemonade cleanse" about 3 times, which is a 10 day cleanse. I really enjoyed the benefits of this as well, but at this point in my life I probably will not do it again as I'm living with a large family and it's harder to get away with this sort of thing.

As far as how they work, the only positive evidence is anecdotal. I can tell you it worked for me, but much of the language to describe it is fishy. I use the word "Detox" out of necessity but it's kind of a nonsense word, since it implies "toxins" in the body. But "toxins" is a heavily loaded word with a specific meaning. That's something like dioxin or asbestos. If those things were in your body you'd know it pretty quickly and a fast probably wouldn't help you.

I prefer to think of it merely as a purification and understand it intuitively like this. You have a dirty sponge. If you keep using it to clean it will stay dirty and/or get dirtier. If you run clean water through it for awhile, or some detergent, you will clean it out. That's all. No new age nonsense or anything like that.

The fasting the Buddha did was extreme and is nothing like the fasting that most people will practice now. The Buddha was able to touch his spine through the front of his body and his stomach through the back of his body. That's the kind of extreme behavior the Buddha warned against. 3 days of water fasting or 10 days of a cleanse is not anything close to this.

Fasting for me always promoted healthier eating afterwards, and it was easier than simply trying to change to eating healthy. There is some psychology to this and probably some physiology which I don't have the knowledge to explain. I just know that for me, sometimes it was easier just to "reboot" by doing a cleanse.

Not everybody has had this experience. I have known people who have done cleanses and fasts and came off of them by eating the most indulgent meal they were craving. This would then make them sick, and they would be left with a bad experience about the entire thing. I learned how much remarkably much energy my body had without eating and how little I really needed when I came off of it, the difference between hunger and cravings, and the effects that food had on my mind.

-M
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Bunjers
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Bunjers »

:goodpost: :twothumbsup:
Gāravo ca nivāto ca, Santutthi ca kataññutā, Kālena dhammasavanam, Etam mangalamuttamam :anjali:
Traveler
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Traveler »

....When I broke fast I ate semi-solid food way to fast and started bleeding, I recovered in 2 weeks.
The max I go today is 7 days but to fast and meditate while in this state, for me is a very powerful experenice.
I don't recommend anyone going this amount of time fasting it can be extremly dangerous if you have any health issues. Good Luck
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Traveler »

Hello All.... I have for the past 30 years fasted 2-3x per year. I started doing the 3 day fast the I tryed 7 days, What I learned was the fun starts after 3 days. I experenced a high level of energy, my mind became very clear and focused a real natural high, there was no urge to eat that was gone. I fasted in 2001 for 15 days (Dangerous) Again the experience was incredible however on the 10th day the food dreams started and the headaches started but still had the will to keep going (big mistake).
nathan
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by nathan »

Conditions change. When there is this, then there is that, etc..

http://hsfound.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}
denise
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by denise »

hello all...a bad experience for some having a first fast of sorts during lockdown...not for all but for many this "lack" was new to them... no quick fix from places/vendors...drive thru, etc....habits developed in an environment where all and any amount is provided in a matter of minutes....and then this experience is no longer available in a big way.... not an easy "new" experience...not easy at all ...cannot imagine the challenges lockdown dished out on lockdown with say....kids? :heart:
Observing
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Observing »

I would keep in mind The Middle Way in whatever you decide to do. And to know your own proclivities. For example, you mention having a strong attachment to food already. If you feel you are on the extreme end of being highly attached to food (binge eating or food addiction), then turning to the other extreme of fasting may be unwise for you. A person with a history of any eating disorders which involve restricting food intake to unhealthy levels or with unhealthy intentions in mind, should also refrain from fasting.
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