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Dhamma Wheel • View topic - the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

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the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby cittasamadhi » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:44 pm

greeting you all here. i don't know that the concept of panna in relation to bodhisatta ideal in therevada buddhism is the same to that of arahat. I found some say that the panna is the same in both bodhisatta and arahat in theravada,because their final goal is same. is this point wrong or not? if someone can answer me in details, i will not confuse them anymore.

thank you all.
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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:36 pm

The insight into the four nobles truths of all arahants is the same, but the Wisdom of the Buddha is immeasurable and more extensive than that of the Arahant. Prior to enlightenment the Bodisatta has not attained the same wisdom as the arahant as he has not attained arhattamagga.
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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:47 pm

A Buddha aspirant is said to practice all the 10 paramis to the '3rd degree' (paramatta-parami), to the second degree (upa-parami) to become an paccekabuddha and to the 'normal' level to become an arahanth. So even the panna parami will be practiced to the greatest degree..

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby perkele » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:53 pm

What does this mean: to the third degree, or to the second degree? And where can one read about that?

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:33 pm

I'm not sure by this might be helpful:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/stud ... tions.html

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:08 pm

IIRC its to do with the limitations in practising the perfections of giving and so forth.

The 3rd degree means without limit, fulfilling the perfections even at the cost of one's own life.
The 2nd degree means fulfilling the perfections even at the cost of one's own limbs, eyes, etc.
The 1st degree means fulfilling the perfections below such limitations.
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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby cittasamadhi » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:39 pm

thank you all. but do you mean that panna is same to the panna-parami and the different between them depending on different degree? is the bodhisatta's panna lower that of arhant? but in the term of process not fruit, is the panna the same or not? my question here is that the fruit of a boddhisatta is the buddhahood, which is higher than arahantship. however, in the process of practicing panna, do they practice the same panna in order to obtain their fruit? we know that threefold training is fundamental process to attain liberation in buddhism. and the panna means "to know", is this meaning difference between a bodhisatta and arhant?

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:20 pm

No concrete answers as far as I know, except to say that there must be a lot of overlap. Which do you want to become in the end?

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby cittasamadhi » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:20 am

rowyourboat wrote:No concrete answers as far as I know, except to say that there must be a lot of overlap. Which do you want to become in the end?

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Matheesha



but on the wiki encyclopedia, panna is one of threefold training, one of five indriya, and one of ten paramis. how do you think the relationship between panna sikkha and panna parami?

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:27 pm

Suggest you review the meaning/definition of the word "panna" here:

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :1599.pali
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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby somo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:51 pm

Most of the bodhisattas the panna isn't more than arahan. the bodhisattas spent the times a lot before to be buddha. the bodhisattas spent the times about 2 asongkhai +100,000 kappa when they would be the paccekabuddhas. the time might be difference , it depends on about the indicator of them. the time less than when the bodhisattas use indicator of panna. and spent the time more than when them use indicator of faith and the end it spent the time very much they use the indicator of viriya . but sammasambuddhas spent the time as the same but more than paccekabuddhas. it depends on the indicator they use. the first start of bodhisattas sometime didn't know the dhamma. but he might be a king because he did the good karma in the past before rebirth. the asongkhai and mahakappa are the time of india. u can read from this.

http://www.dmc.tv/forum/lofiversion/ind ... t2078.html

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Re: the concept of panna in bodhisatta ideal in theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:55 am

Greetings Somo,

Sorry, it's a little difficult to understand precisely what you're trying to explain here.

Do you know of any scripture or commentary that you could recommend which explains the point you're trying to make?

Thank you.

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