Applying judgment and being judgmental?

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Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:52 am

What are some things the Buddha said in regards to discernment and the difference between judgment and being judgmental in regards to Dhamma?
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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby ground » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:38 am

"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view.
...
"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right knowledge, right release comes into being. Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors, and the arahant with ten.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby cooran » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:50 am

Hello WitF,

No Suttas - but there is this from Thanissaro Bhikkhu on:
Being Judicious, not Judgmental
http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... s%20vs.pdf

and, a little more on a different tangent from him - about judging others:

''Of course, many people in our society are uncomfortable with the notion of right and wrong--especially in the area of religion.
I don't think it's so much that they are uncomfortable with the notion of right and wrong. It's just that they've shifted their reference points. Being judgmental is now wrong; being non-judgmental is right. This, I think, comes from two factors. One is that we're tired of fervid monotheists who demonize anyone who differs from their view of The One True Way. We've seen the harm that comes from sectarian religious strife, and it's obviously pointless. So we want to avoid it at all costs. The other factor is that we ourselves have been subject to evaluation all of our lives, some of it pretty unfair—in school, at work, in our relationships—so when we come to retreats we want respite.
This becomes a problem, though, when people confuse being judgmental with the act of exercising judgment. And again, the difference is a question of skill. Being judgmental—hypercritical, quick to dismiss the opinions of others—is obviously unskillful. But in our rush not to be judgmental, we can't abandon our critical abilities, our powers of judgment. We have to learn how to use them skillfully. It's all very fine not to pass judgment when you're on the sidelines of an issue and don't want to get involved. But here we're all out on the playing field, facing aging, illness, and death. Our skill in exercising judgment is going to make all the difference in whether we win or lose. The team we're facing has never been taught to be uncritical. They play hard, and they play for keeps
The Buddha himself was quite critical of teachers who wasted their time—and that of their students—by asking the wrong questions. He was especially critical of those who misunderstood the nature of karma, because how we comprehend the power of our actions is what will make all the difference in how skillfully we choose to think and act. So refraining from judgment is not the answer to the question of how we face the differing teachings we find available. In fact, a knee-jerk nonjudgmental stance can often be a very unskillful way of passing judgment.'''
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/interview1.html

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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby PeterB » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:00 am

To add to the above

" Being judgemental, the only unskillful action recognised by the modern era "...Ajahn Sumedho.
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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:52 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:What are some things the Buddha said in regards to discernment and the difference between judgment and being judgmental in regards to Dhamma?

Hi, WitF,
I think there is an assumption built into the language that seems to have slipped past all of you so far: "being judgemental" is a phrase which is quite new (last 20 - 30 years?) and has always been derogatory, while "exercising judgment" or "using discernment" is much much older and nearly always seen positively. That's a very good reason for a lack of comments on the difference between the two.
You might find comments on nearly-equivalent terms, though - condemning thoughtlessly or hastily, for instance.
Meanwhile, Cooran's quote from Thanissaro Bhikkhu is great (I didn't read the other one but it's probably good too).
:namaste:
Kim
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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby dhammapal » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:53 am

See Anguttara Nikaya 6:44
Don't Judge Others!
http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh208-p.html# ... eOthers%21
From: Anguttara Nikaya
An Anthology
Part II
Selected and translated from the Pali
by
Nyanaponika Thera
and
Bhikkhu Bodhi

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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby lojong1 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:54 am

Don't judge others!: AN 6.44 (above) has -- to measure/paminaati. This can be a useful inspiration when used well, but inaccurate and foul when used inappropriately.

Judge others! MN 110 has in contrast -- /to know/jaanaati. There are other kinds of knowing--I think abhijaanaati is way high up there, and even that would be 'judging' for today's asappurisa.
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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:02 am

Judging others is a form of aversion.

Discriminating re who you want to associate with is a form of wisdom.


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Re: Applying judgment and being judgmental?

Postby Nibbida » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:27 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Wizard in the Forest wrote:What are some things the Buddha said in regards to discernment and the difference between judgment and being judgmental in regards to Dhamma?

Hi, WitF,
I think there is an assumption built into the language that seems to have slipped past all of you so far: "being judgemental" is a phrase which is quite new (last 20 - 30 years?) and has always been derogatory, while "exercising judgment" or "using discernment" is much much older and nearly always seen positively. That's a very good reason for a lack of comments on the difference between the two.
You might find comments on nearly-equivalent terms, though - condemning thoughtlessly or hastily, for instance.
Meanwhile, Cooran's quote from Thanissaro Bhikkhu is great (I didn't read the other one but it's probably good too).
:namaste:
Kim


Well said. This is one of the side effects of the imprecise nature of language. Words typically many meanings and connotations. So in cases like this, it's very easy for people to become confused (not WitF, I mean people in general). As if English wasn't problematic enough, this is compounded by the fact that the suttas are being translated from Pali, which itself involves a lot of interpretation across languages and culture. The emptiness mode of awareness is a useful tool for minimizing these potential conceptual-linguistic traps, which spring up countless times in a given day.

To quote good ol' T.B. one more time:

This mode is called emptiness because it's empty of the presuppositions we usually add to experience to make sense of it: the stories and world-views we fashion to explain who we are and the world we live in. Although these stories and views have their uses, the Buddha found that some of the more abstract questions they raise — of our true identity and the reality of the world outside — pull attention away from a direct experience of how events influence one another in the immediate present. Thus they get in the way when we try to understand and solve the problem of suffering.


From: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/emptiness.html
"Dispositions of the mind, like limbs of the body, acquire strength by exercise." --Thomas Jefferson

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