Hi Nana,
Ñāṇa wrote: Saññā is necessary for discernment obtained through meditative development
Where in the sutta did it say that you use Perception ( sanna) while inside Samma Samadhi to develop Vipassana? Most of the suttas on perception suggest that we realize that Perception is non-self, perception is impermanent, perception leads to dukkha. The same goes with the other four aggregates. For example:
“ Perception is impermanent. That which is the cause, that which is the condition, for the appearing of Perception, that is also impermanent. How could Perception, produced by what is impermanent, ever be permanent?" - SN 22:18 Impermanent with cause
“So seeing, Bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple is dispassionate towards body, feeling, perception, mental activities and consciousness.45 Being dispassionate he detaches himself, being detached he is released and in release is the knowledge of being released and he knows: Finished is birth, lived is the holy life, done is what had to be done, there is no more of this or that state." -SN 12:61 Uninstructed
“Herein, Bhikkhus, feelings are known to a Bhikkhu as they arise, known as they stay, known as they come to an end. Thoughts are known as they arise, known as they stay, known as they come to an end. Perceptions are known as they arise, known as they stay, known as they come to an end. In this manner, Bhikkhus, a Bhikkhu is clearly comprehending." -SN 47:35 Mindful
Ñāṇa wrote: The Dhammasaṅgaṇī details a number of different jhānas, including the kasiṇa jhānas, the brahmavihāra jhānas, the asubha jhānas, and so on.
I am aware that the Brahmaviharas and the other formless states are expansive. But here we are discussing the four jhanas found in Samma Samadhi in particular.
Ñāṇa wrote: " many people who rely on the Visuddhimagga jhāna descriptions without a careful study of all relevant older material) is going to have a very different understanding of what jhāna is, than someone who relies on the Tipiṭaka as canonical authority"
Let's keep the Commentaries to the minimum.
Ñāṇa wrote: of these jhānas are capable of expansive development. Terms such as totality (kasiṇa), immeasurable (appamāṇa), and expansive (mahaggatā) which are used in the descriptions of these samādhis indicate the expansiveness of jhāna. MN 127 explains the meaning of expansive mind-liberation and indicates the way of development.
Perhaps you missed my post on this earlier. Mahaggatam Cetovimutti refers to a different meditation. Only Adukkhamasukhaya cetovimutti refers to the first four jhanas.
According to MN 43 and MN 127, there are various types of Cetovimutti. Not all of these terms refers to the first four jhanas. For example, the word appamana refers to appamana cetovimutti , that is the the Four Brahmaviharas meditation.
There are :
1. Neither-Pleasant-nor-Unpleasant cetovimutti( adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya)
2. Exalted Cetovimutti (Mahaggatam Cetovimutti , mahaggatam: lofty, become great)
3. Boundless cetovimutti (appamana cetovimutti),
4. Nothingness cetovimutti ( akincanna cetovimutti)
5. Signless cetovimutti (animittaya cetovimuttiya)
6. Voidness cetovimutti ( sunnata cetovimutti)
While the the Adukkhamasukhaya cetovimutti (1) refers to the four Jhanas found in Samma Samadhi, the other ones do not, including the Mahaggatam Cetovimutti. "And what is the way of explanation by which these states are different in meaning & different in name? "
1.Adukkhamasukhaya cetovimutti :
"Friend, how many conditions are there for the attainment of the Neither-Pleasant-nor-Unpleasant cetovimutti ( adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya) ?”
"Friend, there are four conditions for the attainment of the neither-pleasant-nor-unpleasant cetovimutti. Here, a bhikkhu abandons pleasantness and unpleasantness, and with the setting down of previous joy and displeasure there is neither pain nor pleasure. And with mindfulness fully purified by equanimity, he enters and abides in the fourth jhana. These are the four conditions for the attainment of the neither-pleasant-nor-unpleasant cetovimutti ( adukkhamasukhaya cetovimuttiya). -MN 43
2. Exalted Cetovimutti (Mahaggatam Cetovimutti , mahaggatam: lofty, become great)
“And what, householder, is the exalted cetovimutti (mahaggata cetovimutti) ? Here a bhikkhu abides resolved upon an area the size of the root of one tree, pervading it as exalted: this is called the exalted cetovimutti (mahaggata cetovimutti). Here a bhikkhu abides resolved upon an area the size of one village, pervading it as exalted…an area the size of two or three villages…an area the size of one major kingdom…an area the size of two or three major kingdoms…an area the size of the earth bounded by the ocean, pervading it as exalted: this too is called the exalted cetovimutti (mahaggata cetovimutti). It is in this way, householder, that it can be understood how these states are different in meaning and different in name."- MN 127
3.Boundless cetovimutti - This refers to the Four Brahmaviharas
"The Boundless cetovimutti (appamana cetovimutti), the Nothingness cetovimutti ( akincanna cetovimutti) , the Voidness cetovimutti ( sunnata cetovimutti) , the Signless cetovimutti (animittaya cetovimuttiya):
“Here a bhikkhu abides with a mind imbued with loving kindness ( metta) pervading one direction, likewise the second, likewise the third, and likewise the fourth direction, above, below , around, and everywhere, to all as to himself, he abides pervading the all-encompassing world with a mind imbued with loving-kindness, abundant, expansive, boundless, without hostility and without ill will.
“ He abides with a mind imbued with compassion ( karuna)…..”
“ He abides with a mind imbued with altruistic joy ( karuna, sympathy in other’s welfare)…..”
“ He abides with a mind imbued with equanimity ( upekkha)pervading one direction, likewise the second, likewise the third, and likewise the fourth direction, above, below , around, and everywhere, to all as to himself, he abides pervading the all-encompassing world with a mind imbued with equanimity, abundant, expansive, boundless, without hostility and without ill will. This is called the limitless awareness-release.”
4. Nothingness cetovimutti
"And what is the Nothingness cetovimutti ? Here a bhikkhu completely passes beyond the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness , and aware that there is ’ nothing', he abides in the Sphere of Nothingness. This is called the Nothingness cetovimutti.
5. Signless cetovimutti
"And what is the Signless cetovimutti ? Here a bhikkhu not attending to all signs, a bhikkhu enters and abides in the signless concentration of mind.This is called the Signless cetovimutti .
6. Voidness cetovimutti
"And what is the Voidness cetovimutti ? Here the bhikkhu gone to the forest, to the root of a tree or to an empty house reflects: ‘ This is empty of a self or of anything belonging to a self. This is called the Voidness cetovimutti.
The Similarities Between Various types of Cetovimutti ?
“Here, friend, passion (raga) is a limiting factor (pamanakarano) , aversion ( dosa) is a limiting factor, delusion ( moha) is a limiting factor.
“In a bhikkhu whose mind is free from intoxication/ the taints ( khinasavassa) , these have been abandoned, pulled out with the roots, made like a palm stump, deprived of the conditions to arise again.
With Metta,