Pure consciousness awareness is the unconditioned.

[clw_uk]

Sure i could be wrong and awareness is just the way to and whats left after nibbana, i did say in the other thread that all this was coming from my own understanding of my meditation exp. and teachings i have read/heard, mainly from Ajahn Sumedho



In reguards to awareness as true refuge not being taught by Buddha, i feel this is incorrect

In reguards to our current differences in understanding of nibbana, thats fine we just read/understand the suttas that discuss it slightly differently



My current understaning is that luminous mind is pure conscious awareness, complete mindfulness that is there behind every experience. Its the natural state that is there before all the artifical constructs of "I am" "I like" "good" "bad" etc are fabricated



One thing i have noticed in my meditation is that mindfulness isnt created, one doesnt think "i will be mindful" or "i am mindful" one just is mindful, its just something that gets over looked because of the defilements etc




so by letting go ones mindfulness becomes stronger. IMO the word "developed" is just a conventional word to imply the strengthening of mindfulness

Thats coming from my experience during meditation anyway




IMO the Buddhdhamma is an unfolding of reality, uncovering what is already there



Of course dont take any of this as true just because i have said it, this has come from my own meditation practice and understandings of the Buddha's word

This is taken from this thread an the other one thats connected to this one

How is any of this lecturing?, i keep stating that this is all from my own understanding, im just expressing im not telling

[clw_uk]

With the right understanding, we see that the very desire 'to get rid of' is suffering. We can bear with the feeling of insecurity if we know what it is, and that it changes, it's impermanent. So more and more you begin to feel confident in just being aware and mindful rather than trying to develop your practice in order to become an enlightened person. The assumption is that right now you're not enlightened, you've got a lot of problems, you've got to change your life, you're got to make yourself different. You're not good enough the way you are right now, so you have to meditate and hopefully some time in the future you'll become something that you'd like to become.

Assume there isnt enlightenment already here and that you have to go and find it or seek it



just to avoid any misunderstandings im not lecturing this is from my own understanding of what he is saying im not telling people how it is

[mikenz66]

Let's get back to the OP.

In replying to Robert's query about whether you really meant that nibbana was just awareness:

...its this pure awareness that is the unconditoned, unmade, unborn etc

You essentially repeat your assertion that nibbana is "awareness":

What is the true refuge? Its complete awareness, the unconditioned

You then quote a Sutta section talking about "refuge"

35. "Those bhikkhus of mine, Ananda, who now or after I am gone, abide as an island unto themselves, as a refuge unto themselves, seeking no other refuge; having the Dhamma as their island and refuge, seeking no other refuge: it is they who will become the highest, if they have the desire to learn."

But that seem to me to be talking about the path to Nibbana (as I've highlighted), not Nibbana itself, so offers no support for your "awareness is nibbana" theory.

Metta
Mike

[mikenz66]

Assume there isnt enlightenment already here and that you have to go and find it or seek it

I don't read it that way, but I seem to be having trouble explaining it...

As Ajahn Sumedho says the desire to have things different from how they are is the problem (Second Noble Truth):

With the right understanding, we see that the very desire 'to get rid of' is suffering.

The rest of what he says is about the things that we want to change:

The assumption is that right now you're not enlightened, you've got a lot of problems, you've got to change your life, you're got to make yourself different.

We want to change that we are not enlightened. We want to get rid of the bad stuff in our lives, etc.

In my view he's simply emphasising that the wanting is the problem.

Metta
Mike

[clw_uk]

Just to state im not lecturing



Is an Arahant aware or unaware, wouldnt that awareness be pure untarnished knowing?


I think confusion may come from seeing awareness as a thing, its not a thing as you cant really describe awareness you can only experience it

Pure awareness is subtle, hidden because of defilements etc. This i feel is in line with the fact you dont become a stream-winner or Arahant, they are realizations through awareness eventualy leaving only complete knowing, pure awareness

When one is aware there is no i making because there is no grasping as you see things as they are, you see reality. Thats why i feel we practice mindfulness of breathing etc, through this awareness gets deeper and deeper so we see more of reality and so awareness is less and less tarnished because of that vision leading to more awarness and knowing until there is complete knowing of reality or awareness


Nibbana is the putting out of the fires of greed hatred and delusion by seeing things as they are through awareness (and so having no ignorance, craving etc), pure awareness is what is left after

Its the means and in the end all there is, pure conscious awareness, clear knowing of things as they are

No coming or going, no me or mine just seeing things as they are


Once again this is from my understanding im not telling people

[robertk]

All mental states, whatsoever, are conditioned and evanescent. Whatever mind states that arise for an arahat are of course all conditioned and evanescent, no exceptions.

[tiltbillings]

All mental states, whatsoever, are conditioned and evanescent. Whatever mind states that arise for an arahat are of course all conditioned and evanescent, no exceptions.

Except that the "mental/mind states" are no longer conditioned by greed, hatred, and delusion.

[Ngawang Drolma.]

I'm having trouble understanding what's innacurate about what Craig is saying

[tiltbillings]

Craig:

Nibbana is the putting out of the fires of greed hatred and delusion by seeing things as they are through awareness (and so having no ignorance, craving etc), pure awareness is what is left after

Sure, if you mean by pure awareness that rise and fall of awareness/consciousness which is no longer colored by greed, hatred and delusion. No need to make something mystical out of this.