Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
If you are thirsty but there's nothing in the fridge except beer, and tap water is undrinkable, would alcohol be allowed in that case?
Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
The 5 precepts for lay people are suggestions for people who want to be liberated from suffering, the 5 precepts are not sins that are disallowed and punished.
The "suggestions" in the precepts is to avoid intoxicants, I don't believe specifically alcohol, as an aide in avoiding being part of events that will lead to unskillful states of mind.
Apply your own thinking, watch out for rationalizations
The "suggestions" in the precepts is to avoid intoxicants, I don't believe specifically alcohol, as an aide in avoiding being part of events that will lead to unskillful states of mind.
Apply your own thinking, watch out for rationalizations
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Yes, but remember, alcohol ultimately dehydrates you.
Did you known both Muslims and Jews are permitted to eat pork?
if the circumstances dictate that they are in need of sustenance, and there is no other means of feeding themselves, then without other options, eating pork is acceptable.
Same here.
but as Jhana points out, alcohol is not specifically forbidden.
Do what is wise for you in that moment, and be mindful in other cases.
Did you known both Muslims and Jews are permitted to eat pork?
if the circumstances dictate that they are in need of sustenance, and there is no other means of feeding themselves, then without other options, eating pork is acceptable.
Same here.
but as Jhana points out, alcohol is not specifically forbidden.
Do what is wise for you in that moment, and be mindful in other cases.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
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Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Jhana4 wrote:The 5 precepts for lay people are suggestions for people who want to be liberated from suffering, the 5 precepts are not sins that are disallowed and punished.
The "suggestions" in the precepts is to avoid intoxicants, I don't believe specifically alcohol, as an aide in avoiding being part of events that will lead to unskillful states of mind.
Apply your own thinking, watch out for rationalizations
That cuts though the idea I see in some interminable threads that the precepts are some sort of legal system that should be prodded and poked by clever lawyers...
Mike
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
I have to ask, "Why would a Buddhist have beer in the fridge at all?" At least, there should be some ice in the fridge, shouldn't there? You could chip that off, and then boil and filter it.
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Thank you all, and thank you Bhante.
But when a Buddhist lives with non-Buddhists, it is possible to have beer in the fridge.
But when a Buddhist lives with non-Buddhists, it is possible to have beer in the fridge.
Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
That sounds like a great lead in to a good joke, now we just have to come up with the punch line.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I have to ask, "Why would a Buddhist have beer in the fridge at all?"
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
I've noticed that too, both in myself and others. I think that way of thinking is the result of growing up in a culture dominated by an Abrahamic religion ( Christianity, Islam and Judiasm ). When people live under the threat of punishment from an authority figure they only learn to respect the letter of the "law", not the spirit and reason behind it.mikenz66 wrote: That cuts though the idea I see in some interminable threads that the precepts are some sort of legal system that should be prodded and poked by clever lawyers...
The 5 precepts are not laws. The 5 precepts are tips for your own benefit.
It is like going to a nutritionist to learn how to slim down. You aren't doing anything morally wrong by having a slice of cake. Nobody is going to punish you. You are just wasting the money you spent for the advice and thwarting your own desires in reaching your goals.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
This seems like an unlikely scenario, but even if it were so, the alcoholic beverage could be heated up. Alcohol has a lower boiling point than water so it will evaporate quicker leaving water behind.
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Greetings,
The precept as worded, relates to the intoxicants that lead to mindlessness?
Does the one beer in the fridge lead to mindlessness? That will be for the individual to decide.
Some might say that opens up a "slippery slope", and I would agree that no alcohol is better than a little alcohol, vis-a-vis mindfulness, but to what extent does one beer lead to mindlessness?
Metta,
Retro.
The precept as worded, relates to the intoxicants that lead to mindlessness?
Does the one beer in the fridge lead to mindlessness? That will be for the individual to decide.
Some might say that opens up a "slippery slope", and I would agree that no alcohol is better than a little alcohol, vis-a-vis mindfulness, but to what extent does one beer lead to mindlessness?
Two men in the desert... one living off beer, one living off nothing. Who dies from dehydration quicker?Fede wrote:Yes, but remember, alcohol ultimately dehydrates you.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Boil your tap water and have a nice cup of tea.Stefan wrote:If you are thirsty but there's nothing in the fridge except beer, and tap water is undrinkable, would alcohol be allowed in that case?
In the situation you describe above, I would rather go thirsty than drink the beer. No one dies from being a little-bit thirsty. For many people in the west, they conflate 'thirst' and 'hunger' with craving for sensual pleasure of drinking and eating.
If the water was truly undrinkable and boiling it would not make it drinkable, then I would go out and buy some bottled water.
Developing perfect sila is critically important, Stefan, if you want to make any progress on the path.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Because it's too warm if they keep it in the oven!!!!!Jhana4 wrote:That sounds like a great lead in to a good joke, now we just have to come up with the punch line.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I have to ask, "Why would a Buddhist have beer in the fridge at all?"
chownah
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
The precept as worded is an undertaking to abstain from intoxicants that lead to heedlessness, not an undertaking to abstain from becoming intoxicated.retrofuturist wrote:The precept as worded, relates to the intoxicants that lead to mindlessness?
Does the one beer in the fridge lead to mindlessness? That will be for the individual to decide.
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Greetings bhante,
Metta,
Retro.
I agree, but they only lead to intoxication in certain volumes... hence presumably why medicinal uses of alcohol in accordance with the Vinaya are permissible for bhikkhus. From that I think it's clear it's not a case of absolutes.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:The precept as worded is an undertaking to abstain from intoxicants that lead to heedlessness, not an undertaking to abstain from becoming intoxicated.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Is alcohol allowable in certain cases?
Picky picky....retrofuturist wrote:Two men in the desert... one living off beer, one living off nothing. Who dies from dehydration quicker?Fede wrote:Yes, but remember, alcohol ultimately dehydrates you.
Metta,
Retro.
What man in the desert is dragging a fridge around with him?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!
Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself.
I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?!
http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;