Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
nathan
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:21 am

"Japan suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility."

"The four reactors at Fukushima Daiichi have now been collectively hit by four explosions and two fires since a magnitude-9.0 earthquake on Friday shook the region 260 kilometres northeast of Tokyo."

"Japan’s nuclear safety agency said 70 per cent of the nuclear fuel rods may have been damaged at Fukushima Reactor No. 1, which suffered an explosion Saturday, triggering the crisis. The Kyodo news agency said 33 per cent of the fuel rods at Reactor No. 2, which was hit by an explosion on Tuesday, have also been damaged. The reactors’ cores are believed to have partly melted after the cooling mechanisms shut down."

source:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1942915/
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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mikenz66
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:25 am

PS. this Wikipedia article has a useful level of detail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_water_reactor

Mike

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christopher:::
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby christopher::: » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:56 am

Workers have returned to the plant!! Maybe they just needed a break, perhaps went out for some donuts and coffee? The green tea donuts are especially nice here in Japan, if you've never tried them.

Image
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:42 am

Last edited by Kim OHara on Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mawkish1983
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:52 am

Emergency neutron absorbers (boron is common) should have been automatically deployed, shich would have stopped the reactor heating up by stopping the chain reaction. It seems this hasn't happened, because the core is heating up; the chain reaction may be happening still. It shouldn't be, but it looks like it is.

Hmmm. I believed nuclear was safe. I believed no country would take such huge risks without failsafes. I sat in countless hours of lectures as professor after professor explained how nuclear disaster was now impossible. I believed them. They were wrong, and so I am wrong.

Very disappointing to be lied to, but I was told the situation in Japan was impossible.

It's making take a long hard look at many technologies I support(ed), not just nuclear fission power.

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christopher:::
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby christopher::: » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:55 am

I tend to mistrustful of anyone who holds something very dangerous in their hand, offers it to you and says "this is perfectly safe." More trustful when they say "this is very very dangerous, so we have to be very very very very careful."

Mawkish, have you ever seen the map of the radioactive fallout patterns from the US Nevada atomic bomb tests in the 1950s? I'd be curious to know if it was mentioned in any of your prof's classes.

Image

And here's a scientific paper on presented in 1958. They knew this was happening, knew that the radiation from their tests were coming back to the earth via rainfall and yet for some strange reason just kept on blowing the things up until the early 60s, when finally other scientists were able to show that strontium 90 was accumulating in the teeth of children all over the US...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/science/10reiss.html
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

chownah
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby chownah » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:36 am


nathan
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby nathan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:59 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:14 am


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Annapurna
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Annapurna » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:41 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

dhammapal
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby dhammapal » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:27 am

The problem with solar and wind is that the sun goes behind a cloud and the wind doesn't blow. We need a baseload source of energy.






chownah
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby chownah » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:40 am

mikenz66,
from wikipedia (not always the best source)under the subject "nuclear chain reaction":
"....
Fission chain reaction

Fission chain reactions occur because of interactions between neutrons and fissile isotopes (such as 235U). The chain reaction requires both the release of neutrons from fissile isotopes undergoing nuclear fission and the subsequent absorption of some of these neutrons in fissile isotopes. When an atom undergoes nuclear fission, a few neutrons (the exact number depends on several factors) are ejected from the reaction. These free neutrons will then interact with the surrounding medium, and if more fissile fuel is present, some may be absorbed and cause more fissions. Thus, the cycle repeats to give a reaction that is self-sustaining.

Nuclear power plants operate by precisely controlling the rate at which nuclear reactions occur, and that control is maintained through the use of several redundant layers of safety measures. Moreover, the materials in a nuclear reactor core and the uranium enrichment level make a nuclear explosion impossible, even if all safety measures failed. On the other hand, nuclear weapons are specifically engineered to produce a reaction that is so fast and intense it cannot be controlled after it has started. When properly designed, this uncontrolled reaction can lead to an explosive energy release.
....."

This seems to indicate that a nuclear chain reaction only needs to be self sustaining at most and that it can be modulated by " precisely controlling the rate at which nuclear reactions occur,..."
Thus it seems that there is no requirement that there be an increase in activity.....and if this is so then there infact IS a chain reaction going on in the Japanese reactors....and this chain reaction is the cause of the heating which is causing the current problem.....am I reading this correctly?
chownah

chownah
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby chownah » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:53 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:05 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:07 am


Justsit
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Justsit » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:23 pm


Jhana4
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:52 pm

I've actually learned a lot of positive things about nuclear power as a result of engineering types standing up for nuclear power during this crisis. However, that was just the technical side of the issue. These people forgot the human failings side of it, which I believe is responsible for this crisis and why I am going to continue to be against nuclear power in my own country ( USA ).

I saw on CNN yesterday that the design for this plant was considered flawed back when it was built in 1972. Yet it was built and built in an earthquake zone nonetheless.

If people as conscientious and disciplined as the Japanese can do that, it makes very frightened with regards to nuclear power in the U.S.. Here, corporations being able to get away with selling people out is a much more normal occurrence ( example BP cutting corners on equipment and safety procedures).
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Mawkish1983
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:12 pm

Supply and demand. It seems that the solution is for everyone to make a joint-effort to reduce how much electricity we use. If we use less than we can generate via renewable means, there will be no need for fossil-fuel or nuclear powered plants.

In some ways I envy people who lived at the time of the Buddha.

Mawkish1983
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:13 pm


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poto
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Postby poto » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:59 pm



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