Rebirth into Nothingness

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Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:57 pm

Greetings


"Then again, the disciple of the noble ones considers this: 'I am not anyone's anything anywhere; nor is anything of mine in anyone anywhere.' Practicing & frequently abiding in this way, his mind acquires confidence in that dimension. There being full confidence, he either attains the dimension of nothingness now or else is committed to discernment. With the break-up of the body, after death, it's possible that this leading-on consciousness of his will go to the dimension of nothingness. This is declared to be the third practice conducive to the dimension of nothingness



Does one only need to attain the dimension of nothingness once in order for there to be a rebirth there? or does it need to be developed over and over? or does it need to be entered into at moment of death?


:anjali:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:00 pm

Craig

Please provide a citation for the above quote.
Thanks

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:09 pm

“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:19 pm

MN 106
Aneñja-sappaya Sutta
Conducive to the Imperturbable
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This Sutta has some complex stuff in it. The Nanamoli/Bodhi translation has three pages of extracts from the Commentaries. It deals with formless attainments and what the destination if one dies without becoming an Arahant... There is also some reference to dry insight towards the end...

Metta
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:21 pm

mikenz66 wrote:MN 106
Aneñja-sappaya Sutta
Conducive to the Imperturbable
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This Sutta has some complex stuff in it. The Nanamoli/Bodhi translation has three pages of extracts from the Commentaries. It deals with formless attainments and what the destination if one dies without becoming an Arahant... There is also some reference to dry insight towards the end...

Metta
Mike



Oh no commentaries :o (joking :) ) Do you know where i can find those extracts from the commentaries?



:anjali:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:25 pm

clw_uk wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:MN 106
Oh no commentaries :o (joking :) )

Without a knowledge of Pali and an encyclopaedic knowledge of all of the Suttas, to be able to cross-reference the terms, the only way we're going to make sense of Suttas such as this is to read the commentaries...

It would take me a while to make sense of three pages of Commentary. Perhaps I'll look at it later...

Mike
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:29 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:MN 106
Oh no commentaries :o (joking :) )

Without a knowledge of Pali and an encyclopaedic knowledge of all of the Suttas, to be able to cross-reference the terms, the only way we're going to make sense of Suttas such as this is to read the commentaries...

It would take me a while to make sense of three pages of Commentary. Perhaps I'll look at it later...

Mike



Thanks mike


(p.s. i was only joking with the commentary thing)


Metta
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:31 pm

Hi Craig

When you can afford it, you may wish to invest in a copy of the Majjhima Nikaya translated by Bhikkhu Namamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi. I find the Ven Namamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations more reliable and it includes a wealth of explanatory notes.

(THE BASE OF NOTH|NGNESS)
8. "Again, bhikkhus, a noble disciple considers thus: 'I am not anything belonging to antone anywhere, nor is there anything belonging to me in anyone anywhere (1016)'. When he practices in this way and frequently abides thus, his mind acquires confidence in this base. Once there is full confidence, he either attains to the base of nothingness now or else he resolves [upon it] with wisdom. On the dissolution of the body, after death, it is possible that the evolving consciousness may pass on [to rebirth] in the base of nothingness. This bhikkhus, is declared to be the third way directed to the base of nothingness


1016

MA calls this four-pointed voidness and explains thus: (i) he does not see his self anywhere; (ii) he does not see a self of his own that can be treated as something belonging to another, eg: as a brother, friend, assistant, etc.; (iii) he does not see the self of another; (iv) he does not see the self of another that can be treated as something belonging to him. Ms has a note by Nm: "These expressions [in this paragraph and the next] seem to have been stereotyped slogans or descriptions of the attainments of nothingness and neither-perception-nor-non-perception, primarily non-Buddhist, and sometimes used as a basis for the existing-body [=identity] view." See Nm's note 19 to Vsm XXI, 53 for further discussion and other references.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby clw_uk » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Hi Craig

When you can afford it, you may wish to invest in a copy of the Majjhima Nikaya translated by Bhikkhu Namamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi. I find the Ven Namamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations more reliable and it includes a wealth of explanatory notes.




Im such a fool, i have the copy of it i didnt think to check the notes in the back :cookoo: lol will look into it now


:anjali:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Posts: 3479
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Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:49 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Hi Craig

When you can afford it, you may wish to invest in a copy of the Majjhima Nikaya translated by Bhikkhu Namamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi. I find the Ven Namamoli and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations more reliable and it includes a wealth of explanatory notes.




Im such a fool, i have the copy of it i didnt think to check the notes in the back :cookoo: lol will look into it now


:anjali:


No problem
But if memory serves me well, the answer to your question as to rebirth into the sphere of nothingness is answered in the Abhidhamma.
Kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
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Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Rebirth into Nothingness

Postby Ravana » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:54 am

I can't excatly pin-point as to where I learned it, but I'm pretty sure that you can cross out your first option - it's either the second answer or the third:

clw_uk wrote:Does one A) only need to attain the dimension of nothingness once in order for there to be a rebirth there? B) or does it need to be developed over and over? C) or does it need to be entered into at moment of death?
“The incomparable Wheel of Dhamma has been set in motion by the Blessed One in the deer sanctuary at Isipatana, and no seeker, brahmin, celestial being, demon, god, or any other being in the world can stop it.”
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