Kenshou wrote:Mind-boggling is right. This is amazingly dumb.
Now, are they just trying to twist nibbana into being some kind of self.
gavesako wrote:It is all over the Thai web, another big scandal. It is Ven. Anil Dhammasakiyo who announced it to the reporters (he is the Nepalese Dhammayut monk who is a good scholar and kind of secretary to the old Sangharaja). Apparently they hired the foreign scholars and gave them salary of 15 thousand baht per month to replace e.g. "anicca dukkha anatta" with "anicca dukkha atta".
I have come across some variant readings like that before, obviously errors, and if they discovered more in the Northern Thai manuscripts they might use it as a pretext for claiming their weird teachings as being orthodox.
kentsiam wrote:NaMasSaKarn Phra Gavesako
First forgive my english...
The news you've heard about Wat Phra Dhammakaya tries to replace "anatta with "atta" in the Tipitaka is totally false. It seems like someone/some group want to discredit Wat Phra Dhammakaya by using Ven. Anil Dhammasakiyo's name. Ven. Anil Dhammasakiyo just announced that he didn't give any interview regarding this matter.
In fact, he did mention that, in his private conversation with his students, he admired Wat Phra Dhammakaya for working on this project.
Therefore, I would like to pass this message along so that we can stop this accusation.
Regards,
ข่าว DMC News 26 มีนาคม 2544 :
พระอนิลมาน ปฏิเสธไม่เคยให้สัมภาษณ์สื่อ
สงสัยใครต้องการดิสเครดิตวัดพระธรรมกายโดยการอ้างชื่อตนเอง
กรณีข่าวการให้สัมภาษณ์ของพระอนิลมาน วิจารณ์การสอนและโครงการค้นคว้าพระไตรปิฎกของวัดพระธรรมกายนั้น ต่อมาทางวัดพระธรรมกายได้รับอีเมลชี้แจงจากพระอนิลมาน โดยปฏิเสธว่า ไม่เคยให้สัมภาษณ์สื่อมวลชนแต่ประการใด
พระอนิลมาน ธมฺมสากิโย กล่าวว่า ขณะนี้เดินทางมาบรรยายที่มหาวิทยาลัยในอเมริกา ได้ทราบข่าวจากลูกศิษย์ที่ส่งข่าวมาจากประเทศไทย แล้วไม่สบายใจอย่างมาก และตกใจอย่างมากว่า นักข่าวต้องการทำอะไรขึ้นมาก็ไม่ทราบ อ้างชื่อตนเองว่ากล่าวในเรื่องต่างๆ ทั้ง ๆ ที่ตนเองก็อยู่อเมริกา และไม่ได้ติดต่อกับใครนานแล้ว จำได้ว่าตนเองเคยพูดวิเคราะห์กับกลุ่มลูกศิษย์เป็นการส่วนตัวว่า ชื่นชมกับวัดพระธรรมกายที่ทุ่มเทศึกษาค้นคว้าในโครงการพระไตรปิฎกอย่างจริงจัง โดยมีการจ้างนักวิชาการบาลีจากทั่วโลกมาร่วมทำงานด้วย
ซึ่งเหตุการณ์ดังกล่าวก็ผ่านมานานแล้ว และตนเองก็ยังจำไม่ได้ว่าพูดเมื่อไร เพราะเป็นการพูดคุยกันเป็นการส่วนตัว ไม่ใช่พูดในการแสดงปาฐกถาธรรมใด ๆ ทั้งสิ้น แต่เมื่อเห็นมาปรากฏอยู่ในหนังสือพิมพ์วันสองวันนี้ว่า ตนเองให้สัมภาษณ์เรื่องต่างๆ รวมทั้งการระบุตำแหน่งทางวิชาการที่สื่อมวลชนใช้ก็ผิด ตนเองจึงรู้สึกงงมากกับสิ่งที่เกิดขึ้นอยู่ในตอนนี้ และงงกับการสื่อสารและแปรข่าวสารไปได้อย่างไร ทั้งๆ ที่ตนเองก็ไม่ได้ให้สัมภาษณ์กับใครทั้งสิ้น
โดยในขณะนี้ ตนเองกำลังสอบถามไปทางเมืองไทยอยู่ว่าเกิดอะไรขึ้น และใครต้องการดิสเครดิตวัดพระธรรมกาย โดยมีการอ้างชื่อตนเองไปเกี่ยวข้องอย่างเต็มที่ ในเบื้องต้นนี้ จึงเรียนมาเพื่อโปรดเข้าใจตามนี้ด้วย ไม่เช่นนั้นแล้ว จะก่อให้เกิดความเข้าใจผิดไปกันใหญ่ และขอได้กรุณากราบเรียนหลวงพ่อทัตตชีโว ท่านรองเจ้าอาวาสวัดพระธรรมกาย ในข้อเท็จจริงนี้ให้ทราบด้วยว่า ตนเองกำลังถูกป้ายในสิ่งที่ผิด ทั้งๆ ที่ วันที่หนังสือพิมพ์อ้างถึง ตนเองก็ไม่ได้อยู่เมืองไทย ....ขอถวายความนับถือ ...พระอนิลมาน ธมฺมสากิโย
Ben wrote:Hi kentiam
Thanks for takig the time to respond. My post wasn't directed just to you.
I have no problem with you defending Dhammakaya. The issue is, whether it is you or another Dhamma Wheel member, either writing in another language or reproducing material in another language and not providing a translation. It then excludes most of our members in participating or even getting an appreciation of both sides of the discussion.
kind regards
Ben
With regard to the statement that Anilman Dhammasakiyo has made to mass media that Wat Phra Dhammakāya has invited Pāḷi specialist scholars from several countries to edit the Tipiṭaka, by changing the Three Characteristics, anicca, dukkha and anattā, Wat Phra Dhammakāya wishes to declare the following:
There is nobody in the world who can change the teaching on the Three Characteristics in the Tipiṭaka, because each of the editions of the Tipiṭaka, whether it be the Thai Siam Rat edition, the Sri Lankese Buddhajayanti edition, the Birmese Chaṭṭha Saṅgāyanā Edition, or the edition from the Pali Text Society in the UK, clearly describe this teaching. If anyone were to arbitrarily change anything regarding this matter, it would clearly not agree with the evidence that can already be found in all the existent editions of the Tipiṭaka. Certainly nobody would accept such a thing, and it would only be detrimental to the person making the changes. It would not be beneficial in any way.
The Tipiṭaka project that Wat Phra Dhammakāya is running now, aims to maintain old palm leaf manuscripts that can be found in places of ancient traditions, such as in Thailand, Lanna, Sri Lanka, Birma and Cambodia. Sadly, these manuscripts in many places become rotten, or are infested by termites in the passage of time. Wat Phra Dhammakāya does this work by taking digital scans of these documents and save these in the computer, to make it more convenient for international scholars to study and do research. The wat therefore cooperates with scholars in checking the scans, so that a comprehensive Tipiṭaka database of information can be made. In this database, it will be possible to find information on every (Buddhist) tradition conveniently and fast using digital computer technology. This is a tremendous amount of work, that can only be done in international cooperation with scholars, and will take decades. But it will be of great benefit in studying and doing research on the Tipiṭaka.
At present, Thai society is already full of conflict and dissension. We therefore ask everyone to please not allow ignorance and misunderstandings to cause any further dissension in the Buddhist world.
Ven. Anilman denies having ever done an interview with any media
Regarding the news of the interview with Ven. Anilman, according to which Ven. Anilman criticizes the teachings and research project of Wat Phra Dhammakāya, Wat Phra Dhammakāya received an e-mail message from Ven. Anilman in which he denies having had any interview with any mass media. Ven Anilman Dhammasākiyo states that he is currently travelling to give a talk at a university in the United States. He received the news from Thailand from his student monks, which was very disturbing and surprising to him. He said he did not understand what news the news reporters have written, refering to him in certain matters, considering that he was still in the United States, and had not contacted anyone for a long while. He remembered he once had a personal conversation with his students, analyzing and praising Wat Phra Dhammakāya that they really devoted themselves to study and research in the Tipiṭaka project, and that they hired Pāli scholars from abroad to help on this project.
This happened a long time ago however, and Ven. Anilman cannot remember when he spoke about this, because it was a personal conversation, not a all a public Dhamma sermon. But then he saw his account in the newspaper in the past days about several issues, in which the mass media incorrectly described his academic position. He felt very shocked with the events happening and the communication and spreading of news, to which he never gave his cooperation.
Currently Ven. Anilman is trying to find information on what happened, and whether there is someone trying to discredit Wat Phra Dhammakāya, and clearly using Ven. Anilman's name and involving him. Ven. Anilman therefore informed Wat Phra Dhammakāya about these matters, to prevent any widespread misunderstanding from arising. He also requested to inform Luang Phor Dattajīvo, the vice-abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakāya, about the fact that he is being used in an attempt at slander. On the date mentioned in the news paper, he was not even in Thailand.
I have discussed the issue with some scholars working in Thailand and abroad on Tipitaka texts and they also expressed doubts whether those scholars (especially from Sri Lanka) would risk their professional reputation if they intentionally falsified the texts. This is what I wrote:
So it really seems to be some shady power games being played out through the media: Ven. Anil Sakya denies ever having given such an interview to journalists and is wondering why they are now referring to him in this connection. He just remembers talking to some students about the Dhammakaya Tipitaka project some time ago and saying that it is good if they study carefully what is written in the Tipitaka. He is actually now in America and only heard from friends in Thailand that this news appeared in the newspapers.
(We can only speculate what goes on behind the scenes in terms of Thai Sangha politics, but there must be a reason why someone released this information at this point.)
.Whatever the case may be, the scholars just review the different manuscripts and create a database, and then their job is finished. After that the Dhammakaya people themselves can decide which readings to adopt (they can claim that they are "more original" due to being based on "oldest surviving manuscripts" from Northern Thailand -- which, it turns out, are full of scribe errors and obvious mistakes) and use them to support their teachings. It may be for example some more obscure passages in the Udana or similar ones that I am thinking of
Yes, I agree that the negative news about monks in Thailand is on the increase all the time and the faith of the lay people is declining. See for example this article that just appeared:
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 14,0,0,1,0
Thailand: Bogus monks exploit Buddhism
The Bangkok Post, March 26, 2011
While many saffron-robed foreigners are genuinely interested in studying religion, some are entering Thailand illegally to beg for money from the public
(Actually I know a Thai lady who goes to teach them Thai language for free every week and also the abbot of the temple seems to be very active in promoting true Buddhist values, but by being too outspoken some of the politicians probably dislike him and so the temple becomes target for such a crackdown.)
And as you say, every meditation tradition will try to find evidence for their particular method in the Tipitaka. There is nothing new or strange about that.
Some groups therefore feel that it is better to start not with meditation, but rather with learning the teachings in the Suttas and "straightening out one's views". These kind of teachers are actually becoming more popular these days in Thailand and have a large following of educated urban Thais. So there is some hope for Buddhism...
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