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[gadfly]

I'm an impartial observer to the previous bracket of comments.

I find that when good people are frustrated from their words with each other, it is because they have stated their views but feel obligated to say more.

Sometimes "inaction" is a necessary part of the process for both parties to come back together.

An example: when you are baking a pastry, you must often times freeze the butter and flour. If you work the pastry too long, the ingredients heat up, and cling together before you are ready for them to. You must wait, stop what you are doing and chill the entire thing in the freezer. It might seem like this is inaction, but its just part of the process.

If people find themselves frustrated in their words, then I often times find the right ingredient is silence. There is no strife in silence.

It doesn't mean that either party has "failed" or is "bad." None of us has the complete skills of the Buddha yet

If things "heat up" or feelings are hurt, it just means you have already worked through a lot of issues and made a lot of progress. To me that says that there is more good to come from all parties after they cool. I feel that our best intentions come back to us. Use the time to work on yourself, and you have already changed the world. Peace

** (Just so you know I"m serious)

[mikenz66]

This fits under the improving DW's knowledge base of foxes in the world.

Careful, Tilt, or you'll be reborn as a fox 500 times... Ooops, wrong Forum...


Mike

[Jechbi]

Here is some advice if anyone else is ever subject to a signature attack. It includes these directions for removing a page or site from Google's search results.
Best wishes.

[Dan74]

This is relevant to the What's Wrong with Buddha Nature thread http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7716 and the whole Dhammic free-for-all.

I think it would be worthwhile to have clear guidelines for the Dhammic free-for-all forum which would encourage discussion of the teachings of all Buddhist schools in a constructive respectful atmosphere staying on topic rather than sliding into sectarian polemics and nastiness. Substantiated criticism is of course important and valuable but not ax grinding and outright slander - it is offensive to those of us who cherish these teachings and hold the masters who taught them in highest respect. In the end, the threads descend into wrangling of no relevance to anyone's practice.

I suggest either tighten up the guidelines or scrap that forum altogether.

[Aloka]

This is relevant to the What's Wrong with Buddha Nature thread http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7716 and the whole Dhammic free-for-all.

I think it would be worthwhile to have clear guidelines for the Dhammic free-for-all forum which would encourage discussion of the teachings of all Buddhist schools in a constructive respectful atmosphere staying on topic rather than sliding into sectarian polemics and nastiness. Substantiated criticism is of course important and valuable but not ax grinding and outright slander - it is offensive to those of us who cherish these teachings and hold the masters who taught them in highest respect. In the end, the threads descend into wrangling of no relevance to anyone's practice.

I suggest either tighten up the guidelines or scrap that forum altogether.

Hi Dan,

I'm not clear about what you mean concerning the Buddha nature thread. I wonder if I missed something because I don't think that it was "sliding into sectarian polemics and nastiness". As for the Dhammic free-for-all, surely " free -for-all" determines the nature of the forum and people don't have to use it if they don't like a little inter-tradition banter - or indeed if they dislike lively exchange in general.

The key point I find it best to remember for myself, is to relax and not to take everything too seriously.


with metta,

Aloka

[Will]

In the beginnings of E-sangha I left the inner circle in a huff. Over what? I cannot even recall. Perhaps the memory loss that comes with age gives one a certain "wisdom" & "equanimity".

In any case, how a board is operated in analogous to how a nation or planet is run - by worldlings, in the main. We humans have a noble potential, yet many failings. So I care less now about others' flaws and focus on my own.

The upshot? Dhamma Wheel is just fine as is.

PS - Except for the technical problem that still occurs - no reminder emails about subscribed posts or topics.

[Dan74]

This is relevant to the What's Wrong with Buddha Nature thread http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7716 and the whole Dhammic free-for-all.

I think it would be worthwhile to have clear guidelines for the Dhammic free-for-all forum which would encourage discussion of the teachings of all Buddhist schools in a constructive respectful atmosphere staying on topic rather than sliding into sectarian polemics and nastiness. Substantiated criticism is of course important and valuable but not ax grinding and outright slander - it is offensive to those of us who cherish these teachings and hold the masters who taught them in highest respect. In the end, the threads descend into wrangling of no relevance to anyone's practice.

I suggest either tighten up the guidelines or scrap that forum altogether.

Hi Dan,

I'm not clear about what you mean concerning the Buddha nature thread. I wonder if I missed something because I don't think that it was "sliding into sectarian polemics and nastiness". As for the Dhammic free-for-all, surely " free -for-all" determines the nature of the forum and people don't have to use it if they don't like a little inter-tradition banter - or indeed if they dislike lively exchange in general.

The key point I find it best to remember for myself, is to relax and not to take everything too seriously.


with metta,

Aloka

I like your key point, Aloka, and I remind myself of this when I get hot under the collar

On the other hand, Dhamma is serious business and it sometimes saddens me when profound teachings and teachers are distorted and slandered.

Inter-tradition banter can indeed be very useful when conducted in good faith and when participants put some effort into their posts rather than writing short throwaway comments or even stooping to ad homs.

I am all for some robust debate with people genuinely interested in a dialogue. What is sometimes missing is basic respect and gentlemanly conduct.

Will, I agree, but it's not all about me. How would you feel when in a public space Master Hua's name is tarnished and his teachings called rubbish? I suspect you would want to set the record straight not just out of respect for the late Venerable but also for other people who may have benefited from his teachings had they not been unfairly dismissed.

[Ben]

Hi Dan,

This is relevant to the What's Wrong with Buddha Nature thread http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7716 and the whole Dhammic free-for-all.

I think it would be worthwhile to have clear guidelines for the Dhammic free-for-all forum which would encourage discussion of the teachings of all Buddhist schools in a constructive respectful atmosphere staying on topic rather than sliding into sectarian polemics and nastiness. Substantiated criticism is of course important and valuable but not ax grinding and outright slander - it is offensive to those of us who cherish these teachings and hold the masters who taught them in highest respect. In the end, the threads descend into wrangling of no relevance to anyone's practice.

I suggest either tighten up the guidelines or scrap that forum altogether.

Just a short message to let you know your post, above, is being discussed within the admin forum.
kind regards

Ben

[Will]

Dan: Will, I agree, but it's not all about me. How would you feel when in a public space Master Hua's name is tarnished and his teachings called rubbish? I suspect you would want to set the record straight not just out of respect for the late Venerable but also for other people who may have benefited from his teachings had they not been unfairly dismissed.

I would correct errors of fact, but if anyone says Master Hua's teachings are rubbish, so be it. They obviously knew him not and karmic effects will handle that poor person.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I would correct errors of fact, but if anyone says Master Hua's teachings are rubbish, so be it. They obviously knew him not and karmic effects will handle that poor person.

I think this is a very appropriate way to respond, and is indeed what I try to do when participating in the equivalent DFFA forum at Dharma Wheel. There's nothing to be gained by taking such statements on board, understanding that you're dealing with different people from different Buddhist traditions who have a different way of looking at things. If people continue to prefer misrepresentations then that's their loss, isn't it?

Metta,
Retro.

[Dan74]

I agree wholeheartedly - we can't do away with misunderstanding and misrepresentation, we can just attempt to gently correct them.

However, for constructive dialogue some basic rules of conduct are helpful and these may include

1. Respect for the teachings of other traditions which doesn't mean agreement but means that if you disagree then you show the courtesy of attempting to explaining your disagreement in a systematic substantiated manner. If I come to a Mahavihara forum and simply say that commentaries are crap I expect my post to be deleted. Something like this should apply across the board, I think.

2. Staying on topic like everywhere else.

3. Not engaging in ad homs or carpet-bombing the thread.

In other words basic rules to help make dialogue constructive.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

constructive.

I'm tipping that word probably sums it up.

Metta,
Retro.

[Hanzze]

Sorry Anna...not buying it . If my French, German, Italian, was as poor as Hanzze's English I would not even attempt to communicate on a website in French, German or Italian...on at least 20 occasions he has had feedback from a number of different people saying that they have no idea what he is trying to communicating. Several people have made the point to him that if he spent just part of the time he spends posting in improving his English everyone including him, would benefit.

Then there is the other point, he has made no attempt to grasp even the basic points of Theravada Buddhism and instead refers to a weird hybrid of Mahayana and Animism of his own devising.


I simply read past his posts without stopping at them. I cant be arsed.

If at anytime he appears to be making an effort to understand the Theravada view instead of delivering lectures characterised by banality and gibberish in equal measure, I will start reading them.

PS YOUR English Fraulein Anna is better than many of the English speakers on the forum.

Thanks for your pity adosa,

I am well, you know the bad guys have neither shame and no heart to be touched. Serious, nothing to worry and also

Maybe I have this whole practice wrong but how is blasting another human being part of the path? I'm sorry, but I can only imagine how Hanzee would feel after reading this. Am I missing something? PM him if you feel correcting his mistakes would be in his benefit but this.....?

adosa

Thanks for your pity adosa,

I am well, you know the bad guys have neither shame and no heart that can be touched. Serious, nothing to worry. I am used to it and also regarding Alan, I found his kind of posting always straight and honest.

Just wanted to tell you that what ever comes along, let it burn your house but never your heart. Things are going well her and I think the wheel moves step by step in the right direction. Even some people will not be happy, but I just like to remember you that it is maybe not the best to stay in a deva realm. You know, it is very difficult to understand suffering when you only speculate about it, so as mad it may sound may you always find a way back into the human realm.

To the team, I guess it is not countable what you are doing for many and it is less when we all just do a bow, but the merits you will gain will come in any case. But also here, maybe it is good to look not to much on something that is called "Dhammawheel" as more for one self. If you make the things in your own interest (and not for any "I" or "we") you take care of your self, and if you take care of your self, you take care of all the others and the dhamma as well. We all know that "self defense" is not easy to over come and the edge between careless about one self and the other side is thin and sharp.

I try to look in, because I saw the post regarding Individual. We always need to remember that there are individuals behind every avatar and how strange they ever may behave, there heart is not much different to our and when we are able to help or much more important to keep them away from doing what is unwholsome than we are doing more that we usually can do. Dont send people away or encourage them to do there own thing. Spezial in the western world we are not able to see and understand suffering very well, so maybe it is good to keep it not that clean as one would like to have it. Actually, without knowing the other side, without knowing or seeing the suffering and pain, we would never leave the palace. Even a palace has it's back side and without the different way in the back it would not run as it is.

Just that mad english wish forces maybe somebody to think for one self. A sweet usual word are easy to take but never will arrive.
May the "Dha(r)mawheel" and all his compounded components have the success that they are looking for and may it be for the wellfair of ALL beings and turn the Dharmawheel with a real push on.
Like ever, out of the heart.
Thanks to the creators, moderators, members and everybody else who takes part on it and make it to that what it is behind the many bits and words.

_/\_

[pulga]

... you know the bad guys have neither shame and nor heart

So true. Thanks for the post, Hanzze.

[PeterB]

Did someone call ?

[Vepacitta]

It's comments and shirty attitudes like that Peter that can make DW a trying experience. Maybe sometimes you might consider shutting your gob.

V.

[PeterB]

Perhaps Vepacitta you might like to explain what you thought my question meant ?

[tiltbillings]

Now, gentlemen, be nice. And do not forget the "report" function.

(And what exactly is a "shirty attitude?" Doesn't sound like something I'd want, at least on most days.)

[Aloka]

And what exactly is a "shirty attitude"

Its blatent shirtism - in other words displaying unacceptable prejudice toward those who don't wear shirts.

[tiltbillings]

And what exactly is a "shirty attitude"

Its blatent shirtism - in other words displaying unacceptable prejudice toward those who don't wear shirts.

No shirtism here, though some people should never take their shirts off in public, but then I'd have no complaints if others did.