A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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fbear
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fbear
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fbear
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by retrofuturist » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 am
Greetings,
A couple of comments/ideas.
The FWBO wheel... I don't like this because it presents dependent origination (as opposed to the transcendental variant) in a sequence not found in the suttas.
The 12 nidanas... likewise there is nothing in the suttas that says the 12th is a predecessor for the 1st. There is a sutta somewhere that says avijja (not-vijja) is the cause of avijja (not-vijja). To me that makes sense, the cause for the absence of unicorns now, is the absence of unicorns previously.
Nearly every D.O. diagram I've seen is circular and I wonder why this is so, since the Buddha never depicted it as circular and the notion of a "wheel of life" or "wheel of dependent origination" is not found in the Buddha's teaching.
Best wishes.
Metta,
Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)'We should not congratulate someone on the success of their misdeeds, but on the contrary should endeavour to advise him or her to lead a more skilful and wholesome life. If such advice is ignored then we can only give up and let go' - Phra PanyapatipoDharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum)
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retrofuturist
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by daverupa » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:55 am
retrofuturist wrote:Nearly every D.O. diagram I've seen is circular and I wonder why this is so, since the Buddha never depicted it as circular and the notion of a "wheel of life" or "wheel of dependent origination" is not found in the Buddha's teaching.
As it seems to be a solely Tibetan artistic expression (e.g. mandalas) I am not surprised it's a wheel, given Tibetan Buddhist predilections. It might be interesting, in another thread, to explore if and where the term "bhavacakka" exists in the Canon, but as I understand paticcasamuppada you're right to point out that the Buddha never "goes 'round the corner", as it were. IIRC, some Chinese versions of the bhavacakka involve only the six realms without the twelve links.
"There is, headman, dhammasamādhi. If you were to obtain cittasamādhi in that, you might abandon this state of perplexity. And what, headman, is dhammasamādhi?
[kammapatha & brahmavihara, & a method of arousing gladness]"
- SN 42.13 - Pāṭaliya"Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them; we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done."
- MN 8 - Sallekha Sutta
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daverupa
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by fbear » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:48 pm
Thanks for the advice. In fairness, it isn't an FWBO picture - the wheel with the 12 nidanas arranged in this way was something I 'dreamt' whilst on one of their retreats.... including the 'transcendental arising' spiral in the centre which when 'cut around' in a true Blue Peter fashion means you can raise it up in a spiral above the mundane wheel depicting our rise out of samsara.
And yes- I agree - I haven't read anything as far as I'm aware so far in the Pali Canon that arranges the links in a wheel in the way the Tibetan tradition has them in the Dhammacakka. Although it does make sense to me to have them circling as a dog circles around and around getting nowhere, but I accept it is not a clear reflection of the Buddhas teaching to have it arranged this way.
Thanks again.
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fbear
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by Adrien » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:00 pm
37 Factors of Enlightenment.jpg -> Nice !
Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to
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Adrien
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by Goedert » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:30 am
Good work.
Do not forget that this is a mind map.
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Goedert
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by piotr » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:12 am
Hi
Retrofuturistretrofuturist wrote:There is a sutta somewhere that says avijja (not-vijja) is the cause of avijja (not-vijja).
I think that you have venerable Ñāṇavīra's conclusions in mind — see
A Note on Paṭiccasamuppāda §24
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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piotr
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