Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by Ceisiwr »

Hi mike


I really wasnt trying to assert anything, not even my own point of view i just thought i would offer some friendly advice to the original OP of this thread(before it got split into to) and then everything after that was me answering questions and explaining about my statement



:anjali:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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DNS
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by DNS »

clw_uk wrote: For example i like the teaching style of Bhante Vimalaramsi who de-emphasizes the commentaries and teaches straight from the Suttas themselves
Thanks for that quote. That looks like a great quote to add to my Quotes from Venerables.

He was trained in the Burmese tradition which is very much attuned to the Abhidhamma, which is written much like a commentary, but he has also studied in many other areas and of course the Abhidhamma is still Canon.
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kc2dpt
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by kc2dpt »

clw_uk wrote:i just thought i would offer some friendly advice
If you come to a Buddhist forum and your "friendly advice" is "Beware of what the tradition teaches because it will mislead you" then you need to be prepared to back that statement up with some hard facts.

I put "friendly" in quotes because it is hardly friendly to come into a forum for a particular religious tradition and tell people the teachings of that tradition are false.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Mawkish1983
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by Mawkish1983 »

I'm sure the intention was good :)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by Ceisiwr »

If you come to a Buddhist forum and your "friendly advice" is "Beware of what the tradition teaches because it will mislead you" then you need to be prepared to back that statement up with some hard facts.

Those are your words and your assumptions please dont put words in my mouth, i offered caution because i felt that the commentaries can sometimes be wrong on some points and so i felt caution should be taken when reading them so thought i would offer some advice (advice isnt telling is it) he doesnt have to take the advice

Now I take on what mike said, that there needs to be more information behind a statement than just a personal view and perhaps it would have been better to have said it in a PM

I put "friendly" in quotes because it is hardly friendly to come into a forum for a particular religious tradition and tell people the teachings of that tradition are false
I feel your going to an extreme here, just because i felt caution should be taken with commentaries doesnt mean i think a religous tradition is false, your once again putting words in my mouth. Furthermore if i was "telling" i would say something along the lines of "the commentaries are wrong and you must not read them" but thats not what i said, i said
My advice would be to read them with caution, although they do correctly elaborate on certain points, other times they can be wrong
This was advice coming from a personal standpoint, not a command or a telling of how it is

My intention was good but it seems people have pretty set minds about me and my intentions now
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ben
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by Ben »

Hi Craig

Perhaps in future it would be best when making statements such as the ones you've made, in relation to taking the commentaries with caution, with something that backs up your position, for example, a cited quote from your teacher or an academic, or whomever. This would go a long way in furthering discussion and for all of us to come to an understanding of each other's position in an environment of mutual respect.
Kind regards

Ben
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ben wrote:Hi Craig

Perhaps in future it would be best when making statements such as the ones you've made, in relation to taking the commentaries with caution, with something that backs up your position, for example, a cited quote from your teacher or an academic, or whomever. This would go a long way in furthering discussion and for all of us to come to an understanding of each other's position in an environment of mutual respect.
Kind regards

Ben
Hi Ben,

I agree with you, i will make sure i do this in the future

Metta

Craig
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by jcsuperstar »

my personal opinion about the commentaries and abhidhamma is they are unnessary for awakening(for some). i base this opinion on the fact that none of the arahants in the suttas studied the comentaries and as for the abhidhamma, the buddha (as far as i've understood) only taught it to sariputta and his students, meaning: it was not a teaching for the majority but rather for the select few (sariputta was the buddha's disciple formost in wisdom after all).

the buddha taught many things to many different people, there are of course "basic" threads running through all his teachings that bind them together, but there are different methods for different folks, a variety of meditation styles etc. what works for some wont work for everyone and not everyone is gonna even be able to follow the buddhist path (the buddha didnt convert everyone he met, and not everyone he did convert became an arahant).

now i'll dig around in the abhidhamma, and i've found some of it quite usefull, the rest i'll admit i'm just not understanding. i dont discredit it however and i'm not sure anyone who has studied it does, or would, i see it as a method of teaching, and of understanding, and i cant see anyone just writing it off as it's obviously helped quite a few people. (the only argument i've ever really even seen against the abhidhamma is a belief that the buddha didnt teach it, and as i dont know either way, i cant defend it on that basis, but if it is one's posistion that it didnt come from the buddha, then i would concede that for them there is no reason to study it)

the comentaries i have never studied, i've read bits and pieces here and there when teachers bring it up in notes or what not but thats about it. so again i am in no position to write them off either, i just dont have the time to find and read them, i am glad however that they are out there, so if for no other reason we have a historical record of buddhist thought.


for such an extreme liberal politically, i guess i'm a centrist when it comes to my dhamma :jawdrop:
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Approaching traditional Theravada Commentaries with caution

Post by kc2dpt »

clw_uk wrote:My advice would be to read them with caution, although they do correctly elaborate on certain points, other times they can be wrong
I would have put it like this: "My practice hasn't always matched up with the commentaries."
Then you are speaking truth.

Perhaps this is due to some error in the commentaries, as you said.
Or perhaps this is due to some flaw in your practice.
Or perhaps this is due to you misunderstanding the commentaries.

But it seems to me your statement goes too far.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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