Is our desire part of us?

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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby josephcmabad » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:21 am

how about impulsive emotions? sometimes emotions happens so fast and comes so strong i've already acted on it before i became aware of it.. seems so much a part of me.. how can i deal with that?
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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby unspoken » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:57 am

Let's imagine. If you are a monkey who is fulled, not needing any food. But you see a coconut hanging on a coconut tree. And at the same time, one of your leg is hurt. What you do? You will continue climb on it, even though it's not needed, but you as a monkey thinks you need the coconut so that you will be satisfied. And you try and try and try. Kept on falling from the tree.
Monkey is an untrained/unskilful being.
(
Coconut is your desire
The tall coconut tree signifies your life
Your injury is wrong thoughts and ideas
Your trial keep on going is because of holding.)

Coconut is not the monkey, the monkey is not the coconut. But the monkey "thinks" he is/ he need the coconut. He need to suffer from falls from tall tree(life) and it's all because he holding up wrong thoughts, even though the monkey is full. He doesn't need a coconut because he can find foods from other places. Despite of having that injury, the monkey end up in a worse scenario.
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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:50 pm

josephcmabad wrote:how about impulsive emotions? sometimes emotions happens so fast and comes so strong i've already acted on it before i became aware of it.. seems so much a part of me.. how can i deal with that?


Hi Joesphcmabad,

We develop the path, little by little , not all at once. When our mindfulness grows with time, even the 'impulses' are known when they arise. On the other hand we work (or should I say, samatha vipassana works) to remove strong defilements of the mind, gradually, so that they thin out.

These questions have two underlying assumptions:
1) desire/defilements cannot be removed, and are part of the mind/biological - (Buddhist view- the mind can function very well, in fact better, without these defilements.)

2) How we deal with the mind/emtions now, is all there is (Buddhist view- it is possible to 'step back' from these emotions using mindfulness, and use various methods outlined in the Buddhas teachings to work on these emotions, in a quite satisfying, non- critical manner.)

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

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Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby Kusala » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:55 am

Lysander wrote:Hello there, I am new to Buddhism. I hope i can find a satisfactory answer for the question i have here.

Is the prescription for dealing with suffering, i.e. the renunciation of all worldly desires flawed? The desiring part of us -- call it eros, taṇhā, the id, the amygdala, or whatever you will -- is ultimately still a part of us. We are embodied beings, with physical cravings and wants. We can't disown our desires, because they are us.


Desire in itself is not bad. It's our attachment to desire...
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Thus indeed, is that Blessed One: He is the Holy One, fully enlightened, endowed with clear vision and virtuous conduct, sublime, the Knower of the worlds, the incomparable leader of men to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed.

Homage to the Teachings
The Dhamma of the Blessed One is perfectly expounded; to be seen here and now; not delayed in
time; inviting one to come and see; onward leading (to Nibbana); to be known by the wise, each for himself.
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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:24 am

Greetings Kusala,

Kusala wrote:Desire in itself is not bad. It's our attachment to desire...

Would you mind potentially clarifying what you mean by this, perhaps with an example.

One example I have heard, and I can't recall whether it's canonical or not, is the desire to cross a park.

I may desire to cross the park, but as long as I am not attached to that desire, I will not experience suffering because of any inability to achieve the desired outcome.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby Goedert » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:12 am

Lysander wrote:Hello there, I am new to Buddhism. I hope i can find a satisfactory answer for the question i have here.

Is the prescription for dealing with suffering, i.e. the renunciation of all worldly desires flawed? The desiring part of us -- call it eros, taṇhā, the id, the amygdala, or whatever you will -- is ultimately still a part of us. We are embodied beings, with physical cravings and wants. We can't disown our desires, because they are us.


What is constantily changing can be called permanent, part of self?

Some abide in lust of desire like a spider in its web and they fell in it like a torrent, the wise leave the torrent behind and sorrow.

Abiding in desire and ignoring knowledged may create illusion. What you describe is a form of wrong view.

Some brahmanins believe that satisfying all their desires they can achieve peace, but they will achieve indiference to the pleasures but in due time it all begin again.
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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby nameless » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:23 am

Lysander wrote:Hello there, I am new to Buddhism. I hope i can find a satisfactory answer for the question i have here.

Is the prescription for dealing with suffering, i.e. the renunciation of all worldly desires flawed? The desiring part of us -- call it eros, taṇhā, the id, the amygdala, or whatever you will -- is ultimately still a part of us. We are embodied beings, with physical cravings and wants. We can't disown our desires, because they are us.


My thoughts are that it's not a "prescription" where you "use" the renunciation to deal with suffering, but rather the insight that desire itself is suffering. For example, a bug bites and it itches, and scratching it feels good... but the better condition would be not having an itch in the first place. If you hold your breath for a long time, the first breath you take feels so good, but the better condition would be to not be deprived of oxygen in the first place. Desire creates a tension, one that is released when we obtain the object of desire, but the better condition would be to not desire in the first place. However this is not something that can be willed or forced, but realized through insight gained.

Desire also has other drawbacks, for example despite all the time and effort I put into fulfilling desire, it's only a matter of time before I desire something new and chase after it. Meaning, the pleasant effect of fulfillment disappears in time. Moreover, after the pleasant effect wears off, the costs might still remain: having to pay off installments/credit card bills for things that are no longer pleasant, health costs after enjoying drugs or even a fat-laden meal, unwanted children/abortions after a wild night out.

As for the desiring part being part of you, well, your hands are part of you, and you can't disown them. They are capable of killing, stealing or hurting someone, but you can choose to use them in such ways.
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Re: Is our desire part of us?

Postby Gotrabhu » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:57 pm

Desire is not part of us. There are at least two words for desire. Tanha and Chanda. Tanha is normally unskilful. It means Greed. Chanda can be unskilful but can also be positive. It means "wish to do". In order to develop in some way, you need one or other. In order to free yourself from desire, you need Chanda. Consider if you are feeling negativity or anger, then desire is not part of you, anger is. At any moment the mind experiences a certain state. Desire is clearly not a permanent state of mind, it comes and goes. Yes, part of desire is bodily and chemical, but as humans we can rise above it.
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