Arahantship already here?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22413
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Arahantship already here?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings


Is there anything in the commentaries or in the general orthodoxy that states that enlightenment or nibbana cannot already be present (i think i made a mistake using the word arahantship)?



Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Arahantship already here?

Post by kc2dpt »

clw_uk wrote:Is there anything in the commentaries or in the general orthodoxy that states that enlightenment or nibbana cannot already be present (i think i made a mistake using the word arahantship)?
Again, it simply makes no sense.
I am already enlightened, if only I would just stop being unenlightened.
I am already awake, if only I would just stop being asleep.
Suffering has already ceased, if only suffering would just stop arising.

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana." — AN 3.32

The end of craving is already present, if only craving would just stop arising.
Dispassion is already present, if only passion would just stop arising.

Do you understand the goal of the path? The end of craving, the end of ignorance, the end of suffering. It simply makes no sense to say these things are already present when they aren't.

Sure, we do not need to acquire some physical thing we presently do not have - a book, a zafu, a house. Rather we need to stop doing something. We need to stop craving, stop becoming, stop repeating bad habits, etc. So I suppose we could say "Everything you will have as an arahant you presently have, the same arms, the same legs, the same sense of smell, etc." But that's really not much of a statement.

Still, there is plenty we do need to acquire: insight, persistence, effort, mindfulness, concentration, conviction, and more.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Arahantship already here?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Peter wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Is there anything in the commentaries or in the general orthodoxy that states that enlightenment or nibbana cannot already be present (i think i made a mistake using the word arahantship)?
Again, it simply makes no sense.
I am already enlightened, if only I would just stop being unenlightened.
I am already awake, if only I would just stop being asleep.
Suffering has already ceased, if only suffering would just stop arising.

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana." — AN 3.32

The end of craving is already present, if only craving would just stop arising.
Dispassion is already present, if only passion would just stop arising.

Do you understand the goal of the path? The end of craving, the end of ignorance, the end of suffering. It simply makes no sense to say these things are already present when they aren't.

Sure, we do not need to acquire some physical thing we presently do not have - a book, a zafu, a house. Rather we need to stop doing something. We need to stop craving, stop becoming, stop repeating bad habits, etc. So I suppose we could say "Everything you will have as an arahant you presently have, the same arms, the same legs, the same sense of smell, etc." But that's really not much of a statement.

Still, there is plenty we do need to acquire: insight, persistence, effort, mindfulness, concentration, conviction, and more.
:bow:
Post Reply